Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

Opp is pretty standard type player, sorta passive.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

No. You are good one it ten times.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

All things being equal

I call it down about 1/3 of the time against an unknown. Rarely against a passive, and maybe about 1/2 against tricky or deceptive players. I don't expect to be good on a lot of these the call is more to keep people from taking to many shots.
If opponent seems to be pushing me offten or pushing the table I might up the calls a bit.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

Here with the pot at 10 BBs, I probably call.

1)We are likely beaten, but the pot is large.

2)Even passive opponents will sometimes develop teeth once the pot gets HU and the scare card falls.

3)On this particular hand, the 2nd club didn't fall until the turn.

Those three considerations weight me toward a call.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

1/10 times is not very often, so I typically call here. Kind of who knows if it's right or not though.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

nope. he's "slowplaying" Jx/9x here too often.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

I've seen even loose passives get wildly aggressive sometimes, especially on the river. I think fish like to bluff the river more than any other street.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

It was a runner-runner backdoor. I pay it off.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

The situation seems very read dependent here. With the pot as big as it is, you probably have to call. you are probably behind. You are scared of a flush, two pair, or a possible set. Against very straightforward players you can fold, but most of the time you have to call, I think. If you fold to scare cards too often, your table image may take a beating and you may have people making plays at you all the time.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

I always call this because of the pot and if he was lucky enough to hit a runner-runner flush, then fine but I can see myself winning here against QJ, J10 and other pairs quite often. Because of his limp preflop this could very well be one of those hands but I could also see him sitting with two pair.

Btw, how come you bet the river if a raise scare you? I prefer check/call if I don't want a raise. Saves me 1 bet [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

[ QUOTE ]
Btw, how come you bet the river if a raise scare you? I prefer check/call if I don't want a raise. Saves me 1 bet

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no actually it usually saves you 0 bets. if he has a hand to raise with, he is surely going to bet it and you are usually going to lose against the hands he'd raise.

however many hands fall into the category that he will call with but will not bet with. thus you are losing the bet you would earn if he called with a worse hand.

value betting the river in a nutshell basically

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

grunch...

i dont even contemplate folding here

edit: would it be totally overly lag/spew to consider a 3bet here?

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

At 6-max enough folks will assume you've got ace-something or king-something (and not whatever they've paired) that you'll be good plenty on this.

Plus, calling will help your non-existent read.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

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would it be totally overly lag/spew to consider a 3bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]
definitely.

Re: Can I fold to THIS river raise
 

I fear a raise on any street when I am only holding top pair. Doesn't mean I don't bet. But when a somewhat predictable player wakes up with a raise, it's hard to believe you have the best hand anymore. I obviously have no reason to believe he went runner runner flush, but there are lots of other semi-reasonable hands that beat me here.

After reading the replies, making a crying call into a reasonably sized pot seems easily justified, if not for the small chance I win the pot as to keep table image and stop other people from bluff-raising me on the river in similar situations.

[ QUOTE ]
I always call this because of the pot and if he was lucky enough to hit a runner-runner flush, then fine but I can see myself winning here against QJ, J10 and other pairs quite often. Because of his limp preflop this could very well be one of those hands but I could also see him sitting with two pair.

Btw, how come you bet the river if a raise scare you? I prefer check/call if I don't want a raise. Saves me 1 bet [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]