Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

I've contacted Party, Stars and Full Tilt and I know that they do not report on any any balances of the players.

NETeller does not, as well, however any transactions to/from your bank account above $10k are "on the radar" from what I know.

You also cannot travel across the border without declaring if you are carrying more than $10k in cash.

Let's say you have a large amount online (I am suggesting the lower bound of this amount to be $100k, but am implying more like 250-400k).

How do you get it out without needing to pay taxes on it? Let's leave the morality of paying taxes out of this discussion - if needed, please start a second thread on it. I'm more curious as to the mechanics of getting the money into the real world without losing half of it.

Let's also shoot for a reasonable time frame (1 year or less) for the purposes of buying a house or something. Obviously if you just want to "live better", you could probably just NETeller out the money via ATM without reporting to .gov, via cash -> ATM.

I also understand that this might not be possible (buying a house, car, or other high priced items may just end up flagging yourself for an audit) but I am curious.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Pay your taxes!

You are 1 "request for information" away from being thrown in jail, by writing this on a public forum!!!

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Since when does information get you thrown in jail? And since when did I ever say I had this much online?

FWIW, I have several magnitudes of order less than this. I'm just curious.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

FWIW, if you have more than 10K combined at any time during the year in foreign assets (that would be, neteller + all poker rooms + anything else), you are required to report/disclose this information.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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Since when does information get you thrown in jail? And since when did I ever say I had this much online?

FWIW, I have several magnitudes of order less than this. I'm just curious.

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Several implies at least three so if we use $400,000 as your reference then you only have $400 to withdraw. I think you are pretty safe.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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Since when does information get you thrown in jail? And since when did I ever say I had this much online?

FWIW, I have several magnitudes of order less than this. I'm just curious.

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Several implies at least three so if we use $400,000 as your reference then you only have $400 to withdraw. I think you are pretty safe.

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So if I ask a question about how far I could hit a golf ball on the moon, because I'm not on the moon currently, I'm not allowed to ask the question?

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Travel to the Isle of Man, or wherever the site's bank is located. Withdrawl the money. Hide it in your pants and hope you make it thru customs.

Or open bank account in the Cayman Islands or Panama. Have money transfered there. Move there. Never enter the US again.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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So if I ask a question about how far I could hit a golf ball on the moon, because I'm not on the moon currently, I'm not allowed to ask the question?



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I never said you shouldn't ask the question. In fact entire industries exist just solely so people can have questions answered for which they have no real need to know the answer.

As a matter of fact I gave you a very accurate answer as it applies to your stated bankroll. Not much gratitude expressed by you either I might add.

To properly answer your golf question we would first need to know your handicap and what club you were swinging.


Jimbo

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Dax,

You profile suggests that you are the Poker Room support mgr for full tilt... if this is true, I would say that your solicitation of tax evasion advice does not reflect very well on Full Tilt.

Would you be concerned if the owners of full tilt were to read your message?

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

The answer to this question costs ~5%-15% of the amount involved.

It's a bad idea to buy a house in the US with undeclared money, but there are legal ways around it once you have the money off the country. There is always some paper trail that leads to you if you use the money in the US to buy big ticket items.

The "illegal" is in not declaring to the IRS and paying your taxes. It's not a misdemeanor either, but a federal felony with prison time. Asking questions like this adds the "conspiracy count" to your crime. If you do it more than once, you become a target of the RICO act. Think before you do something stupid.

If you are tired of US taxes, become a citizen of another country and avoid the taxes legally.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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Since when does information get you thrown in jail? And since when did I ever say I had this much online?

FWIW, I have several magnitudes of order less than this. I'm just curious.



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Several implies at least three so if we use $400,000 as your reference then you only have $400 to withdraw. I think you are pretty safe.



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So if I ask a question about how far I could hit a golf ball on the moon, because I'm not on the moon currently, I'm not allowed to ask the question?

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Wait a minute ... now you're telling us you want to withdraw money from Neteller to an undisclosed location on the moon? And you are also in the Magnitude of Order Society? Get outta' here.

Actually, I think there is a way to do this legally. If you file as a professional gambler, I believe you can put a lot of your winnings in a 529 plan or some such. I'm not sure if that number is correct, but I believe there is some type of 401(k)-like plan for self-employed people that allows them to defer taxes on income until they are 65 or something. Of course, you wouldn't have unrestricted access to the money until you were almost dead, but you could probably borrow against it.

However, after reading a few of your posts, I doubt that you will ever have to worry about having a large bank account, be it domestic or foreign. As they say, a fool and his money are soon parted.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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The answer to this question costs ~5%-15% of the amount involved.

...

If you are tired of US taxes, become a citizen of another country and avoid the taxes legally.

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Now we're getting somewhere. What are these costs? It would seem that if you were so inclined to make a large purchase, you could withdraw the money, $9900 at a time, bring it to a bank and get a cashier's cheque for it, and pay for the item with a stack of cashier's cheques.

If you did have this much money, would it be worth it to you to move to another country, live out of an apartment while getting the money out, purchase a house with it, then move back?

Lastly, I guess if you wanted to wait, you could take any negative losses/buyins for the year and write them off against the wins? IE, document the losses/tourney entries with receipts and so on, and withdraw that much per year? The problem is that it might take several years to get it all.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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However, after reading a few of your posts, I doubt that you will ever have to worry about having a large bank account, be it domestic or foreign. As they say, a fool and his money are soon parted.

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This thread was inspired by an office discussion about exactly this topic. Naturally, there are those chest-thumping egoists who will correlate the subject of a thread that isn't poker-related and use it to denigrate the OP.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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you could withdraw the money, $9900 at a time,

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This is called structuring. It will add about 3 years per transaction to your prison term.

1 - Forget banks, wires, cashiers checks, money orders, etc. They all leave a trail, are watched, and can be tracked.

2 - Get cash (preferable out of the country).

3 - Trade for some hard asset (cars, jewels, antiques, etc.)

4 - Smuggle in the cash or bring in the asset with a valuation far below its true worth.

5 - Never deposit the cash in a financial institution of any type. Sell the assets for cash (no checks, money orders, etc.)

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The answer to this question costs ~5%-15% of the amount involved.

...

If you are tired of US taxes, become a citizen of another country and avoid the taxes legally.

[/ QUOTE ]


Now we're getting somewhere. What are these costs? It would seem that if you were so inclined to make a large purchase, you could withdraw the money, $9900 at a time, bring it to a bank and get a cashier's cheque for it, and pay for the item with a stack of cashier's cheques.



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SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY REPORTS

Perhaps your $9900 idea has been thought of before. Ya think?

Jimbo

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

I agree with baulucky, if you hate taxes so much, move to aussie land where they pay 0% taxes on all gambling. And is risking saving $5K or $20K really worth the risk of going to jail??? Not for me, but maybe for you??? Up to you man, but I recomend not doing it.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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The "illegal" is in not declaring to the IRS and paying your taxes. It's not a misdemeanor either, but a federal felony with prison time.

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Is this white-collar-resort prison or federal-pound-me-in-the-ass prison?

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

your also supposed to follow the speed limit on the highway at all times....do you? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

i asked my friend about this that worked at a bank and he told me as long as the value of the cashed check is not above (x amount i forgot) then it doesn't get reported.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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i asked my friend about this that worked at a bank and he told me as long as the value of the cashed check is not above (x amount i forgot) then it doesn't get reported.

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Incorrect. The over $x ($10k usually) rule is for automatic reporting.

My father is an Anti-Money Laundering Investigator for a European bank, and according to him, transfers of amounts just below the cutoff point for automatic reporting are the most suspicious and will almost always result in a reporting to the Treasure Dept, as will multiple withdrawals/transfers/deposits of any amount if they are freqent. If you make $50k a year and are all of a sudden transfering $4k every three weeks from Neteller your bank will most likely report it.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Won't PokerStars send you checks? Then you could take these checks to check cashers. This is a hit, but not as much as taxes or hassle of anything else.

What is the most you can take to a check casher w/o having anything reported/flagged?

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

what i'm talking about is, if you request a check from pokersite x and CASH it(ie never depositing it in your acct).

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Like a check casher? This is what I would think the best way would be. How much vig do they charge? Are there limits to what they would cash w/o having it reported/flagged somehow?

If there was a limit, I'd cash checks for about half that and spread my business around to several different locales.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Christ just pay your taxes or try to find a creative legal way out of them like a good Anerican

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

So what's your creative way? If you don't have anything...keep it moving to another thread.

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

well i would be careful with that tho as some of these places may be owned by the same parent co. and may bunch their processes together and could possibly get tagged. If your doing it as your sole income just report it and save yourself the potential problems you could get into...

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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So what's your creative way? If you don't have anything...keep it moving to another thread.

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deductions

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

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How do you get it out without needing to pay taxes on it? Let's leave the morality of paying taxes out of this discussion - if needed, please start a second thread on it. I'm more curious as to the mechanics of getting the money into the real world without losing half of it.


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this topic is impossible to avoid. simply put, by dodging taxes you are stealing. by dodgeing taxes on 400K profits, you are STEALING well over a hundred thousand dollars.

Hahahahaha! Even funnier.
 

Check Cashing places have special regulations that are even stricter than Banks. They have to keep records of every transaction for something like 10 years. They also require plenty of ID, and usually have you fingerprint the check.

Hahahahaha! You would be more undercover if you just ran down the middle of the street naked throwing dollar bills up into the air.

Re: Hahahahaha! Even funnier.
 

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Check Cashing places have special regulations that are even stricter than Banks. They have to keep records of every transaction for something like 10 years. They also require plenty of ID, and usually have you fingerprint the check.

Hahahahaha! You would be more undercover if you just ran down the middle of the street naked throwing dollar bills up into the air.

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lol Yeah, well this is why I would make a bad crook. Like that movie Office Space where those guys are looking in the dictionary to try and find out what laundering money means.

But this is all just a hypothetical.

Heck, I don't even play for real money. I play on PokerStars.net to tweak my game. You should too.

Re: Hahahahaha! Even funnier.
 

I think you're asking how to launder money. Go find a drug lord, I'm sure they'd be willing to help.

Re: Hahahahaha! Even funnier.
 

or at least the next retard that knocks on your door looking to sell magazines. (I actually had one come today, selling newspapers, not magazines though. I was so close to asking him if he knew anyone who knew how to launder money)

Re: Getting a large amount of money online \"out\"? (taxes)
 

Can you take a check and cash it at a casino? (with no vig?) Then your assets could be safe in a duffel bag of purple chips which you could gradually exchange for cash.