NFL running backs
 

How valuable are they? Who is the best starting running back and who is the worst? It seems like lately the gap has become smaller and smaller. Is there a team in the league that would say they have serious problems at the running back position?

The broncos are an obvious example of the fact that a teams offensive line is more important the the guy running behind it. The chiefs are another. One "great" RB goes down, and another comes in and has very similar success. It makes you wonder what it was that made the first RB so "great" in the first place.

Sure there are a few exceptions, and there seems to be a common theme among the exceptions. They are the running backs who are also great recievers. LT, Edge, Faulk in his prime, etc. But other than these exceptions, the difference between the best and worst running backs is very minimal. If you put any on of them in a given play, considering the quality of blocking they get and how good the defense is, the results are all going to be very close to the same. Add in the fact that running backs are so often injured, and you have even more reason not to shell out top dollar for a premier back. Especially if theres a good chance the only reason they became known as a "premier back" in the first place is due to their offensive line and the system they played in.

I know none of this is anything new. But my conclusion is one that I'm sure not many will agree with. My conclusion is that reggie bush should not be the first overall pick. I am as big of a fan of him as anyone. But his value relative to other players at his position is simply not as big as as Top QB such as lienhart. There are tons of teams with problems at quarterback (Browns, Lions, Bears), as well as other positions, but like I said before, I cant think of one team that would say their lack of a premier running back is their biggest problem.

Thoughts?

Re: NFL running backs
 

LT
Shawn Alexander
Edge

all easily the MVP of their respective teams .. players like that can make an average QB look better than they are(obv not the case with Peyton, but Brees/Hasselbeck aren't nearly as productive with an ave rb)

Bush will be in that class of gamebreaking RB's, not the generic 1100yd/yr rb

Re: NFL running backs
 

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I am as big of a fan of him as anyone. But his value relative to other players at his position is simply not as big as as Top QB such as lienhart.

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I think that if you could be sure that leinert was going to go on to be a hall of fame QB, then sure you would take him. But these QB's are hit or miss. Bush is much more likely to be a sure thing. And he is likely to be special, not just a good back.

Also there is a difference between running backs running ability, its just that line play is so crucial that it is impossible to just look at stats to make determinations. In determining who is the better and who is worse it is important to look at the film and see who is breaking tackles, who can gain yards with 8 men in the box, who is able to see the entire field and adjust to where the whole is (robert smith was amazing at this), and who has the speed to run away from defenders. Nevermind that LT can catch the ball, he also does all these other things.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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In determining who is the better and who is worse it is important to look at the film and see who is breaking tackles, who can gain yards with 8 men in the box, who is able to see the entire field and adjust to where the whole is (robert smith was amazing at this), and who has the speed to run away from defenders

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What starting RB doesnt do those things? I loved robert smith but I dont think he was ever considered an elite running back. Does Jamal lewis fit your description? Stephen Davis? Tatum Bell? Thomas Jones? Samkon Gado?

I think Clinton Portis is a great example. When he played for Denver he was pretty widely considered a top RB. Now that he plays for the Skins he has definately moved down a tier or two.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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How valuable are they? Who is the best starting running back and who is the worst? It seems like lately the gap has become smaller and smaller. Is there a team in the league that would say they have serious problems at the running back position?

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Very. Ladanian. JJ Arrington. If you don't have one of the top few, yes, the gap is small. Arizona.

Re: NFL running backs
 

I don't buy your argument. It could go for a lot of positions. If the RB that you have is head and shoulders above everyone else's then it makes a huge difference. If any player on your team would make the opposing offensive/defensive coordinator modify their gameplan away from your other players to contain that player then there is top dollar value. This could be anyone maybe not a guard or safety because they would be drafted for a different position but a tackle (offensive or defensive) a corner, a receiver, linebacker, any position - it is irrelevant. The only thing that should matter is if that guy is likely to be that much of a difference maker. The only other option is to pick a top QB and hope it works out, or get what you can for the pick and save the cap space for a later year.

I don't know if Reggie Bush is that guy or not... He could be the next Gale Sayers, or he could be the next Charlie White. I am not convinced on him until I see him in the NFL, but I really only see highlights of college football so I am not qualified to have any opinion on Bush except for what I read in the newspaper.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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LT
Shawn Alexander
Edge


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Alexander is not the second best running back in the NFL. He should be ranked something like 7th to 12th. If he leaves Seattle in the offseason, it will be plainly obvious next year that he was made to look a lot better by the Seattle o-line.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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I am not convinced on him until I see him in the NFL, but I really only see highlights of college football so I am not qualified to have any opinion on Bush except for what I read in the newspaper.

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No, no, no. The standard play for any sports fan is to make sweeping pronouncements regardless of expertise.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Alexander is not the second best running back in the NFL. He should be ranked something like 7th to 12th.

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have you ever watched football?

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Alexander is not the second best running back in the NFL. He should be ranked something like 7th to 12th.

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have you ever watched football?

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Yes. And, I actually pay attention to the guys who aren't carrying the football sometimes.

Shaun Alexander is like Clinton Portis. He looks much better than he actually is due to an awesome offensive line. A few years ago, everybody thought Portis was at least a top 3 NFL running back. Very few consider him even in the top 10 now.

There's a good chance Alexander will be playing elsewhere next season. He will be exposed then.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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LT
Shawn Alexander
Edge

all easily the MVP of their respective teams


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edge is "easily" the MVP of his team? lol

Re: NFL running backs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LT
Shawn Alexander
Edge


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Alexander is not the second best running back in the NFL. He should be ranked something like 7th to 12th. If he leaves Seattle in the offseason, it will be plainly obvious next year that he was made to look a lot better by the Seattle o-line.

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And by playing San Fran, Arizona & St. Louis twice a year. Alexander is finally playing a defense this week that is not below average at stopping the run. With 2 minutes left he's under 100 yards and 4 ypc.

Re: NFL running backs
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
LT
Shawn Alexander
Edge


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Alexander is not the second best running back in the NFL. He should be ranked something like 7th to 12th. If he leaves Seattle in the offseason, it will be plainly obvious next year that he was made to look a lot better by the Seattle o-line.

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This is the smartest thing you've ever said in the Sports Forum.

Mo Morris runs for 1500 yards and 15 TDs next season.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Mo Morris runs for 1500 yards and 15 TDs next season.

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Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Mo Morris runs for 1500 yards and 15 TDs next season.

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Care to put your money where your mouth is?

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I'd be stupid to, considering rb injuries.

Re: NFL running backs
 

But I'd be willing to make a small wager (I'm not much of a betting man) that, if the Shaun Alexander doesn't return to Seattle, their RBs will combined run for 1500 yards.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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They are the running backs who are also great recievers. LT, Edge, Faulk in his prime, etc.

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This is why I'd take a chance on Bush. I don't follow college football very closely, but I'm under the impression that he's an excellent reciever.

I wouldn't take a RB in the first round if they couldn't catch and block.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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They are the running backs who are also great recievers. LT, Edge, Faulk in his prime, etc.

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This is why I'd take a chance on Bush. I don't follow college football very closely, but I'm under the impression that he's an excellent reciever.

I wouldn't take a RB in the first round if they couldn't catch and block.

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yeah this kinda ruins my argument. I mean I didnt set out to make an argument that reggie shouldnt go number 1. I was just sorta thinking about how overvalued a lot of RBs were and then was like hmm maybe that means reggie is being overvalued as the easy number 1 pick...

Re: NFL running backs
 

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(I'm not much of a betting man)

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Do you play poker?

Also, maybe we can make a bet that includes both your RBs combined 1500 yds and S Alexanders totals.

I'd also be willing to do the Mercury Morris bet with the stipulation that any serious injury (we shall define later) negates the bet.

Re: NFL running backs
 

While LT is certainly is a great receiver, he isn't utilized much in that role. Much of his receptions are safety valve receptions that don't do much.

Edge, Faulk, and Priest are/were all awesome though.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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Mo Morris runs for 1500 yards and 15 TDs next season.

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Care to put your money where your mouth is?

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I'd be stupid to, considering rb injuries.

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Thats the difference between eliete backs and Morris. I could put money down that LT will easily get 1500 yards, 15 TDs, and most likely throw one. LT is the BEST back in the league. He makes his own holes, he can catch the ball, and he can throw it(anyone see today's game? That pass the threw was perfect, better then some QB's i see every sunday, IE vick).

Re: NFL running backs
 

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While LT is certainly is a great receiver, he isn't utilized much in that role. Much of his receptions are safety valve receptions that don't do much.

Edge, Faulk, and Priest are/were all awesome though.

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How good do you think Bush will be at this?

Re: NFL running backs
 

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What starting RB doesnt do those things? I loved robert smith but I dont think he was ever considered an elite running back. Does Jamal lewis fit your description? Stephen Davis? Tatum Bell? Thomas Jones? Samkon Gado?

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I wasn't giving a description. I giving a list of things to look for as opposed to just looking at stats because stats are heavily dependant upon the team a player plays for.

Clinton Portis is a perfect example. If you look at his stats now compared with the Broncos, you get the Bronco effect. Does that mean Portis is any worse a runner now, not necessarily. A better measure would be analize each and every handoff he takes and weigh the criteria I gave. A stat tells you a player had a big run. Determining whether that run was do to his ability to make a player miss or because his line opened a whole for him tells you why he had a big run. Some better running backs have crappy stats because of the team they play for. Some average backs have great stats because of the team they play for. All I'm saying is its more important to look at film then stats. Its the difference between what and why.

Tatum Bell, Thomas Jones, Steven davis, all do some of those things well. Right now LT is the only guy that I think can do all those things and not consequently I think he is the only all time great running back playing right now.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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I think he is the only all time great running back playing right now.

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They don't grow on tress, you know. Or, taking a page from the Parcells book, you can't just dial 1-800-alltimegreatrunningback.

Re: NFL running backs
 

I play poker sparingly.

I don't see what Shaun Alexander's totals have anything to it, though.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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I play poker sparingly.

I don't see what Shaun Alexander's totals have anything to it, though.

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Well, if you saying that any back can run behind the Seattle line you're saying that SAlexander's numbers are much better than they should be.

Re: NFL running backs
 

It obviously depends on a multitude of things: who he plays for, who he plays against, etc. Do you deny that Shaun Alexander plays behind a great O-Line against horrible defenses?

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Do you deny that Shaun Alexander plays behind a great O-Line against horrible defenses?

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Not in the slightest. I do not however think that Mercury Morris can rush for 1500 yds and 15 tds.

Re: NFL running backs
 

Anyway, I think it's silly to make a small bet that won't be resolved for over a year. Add this to your favorites or whatever. Whoever's gonna run the ball next year for the Hawks will do very well.

Re: NFL running backs
 

If this guy runs for 1500 and 15 next year, I take a dump!

http://www.utterwonder.com/archives/...ront-thumb.jpg

Re: NFL running backs
 

BTW, there's no way Edge is the MVP of the Colts. WTF is that? Edge is a key member of that offense, yes, but his rushing yards are a byproduct of his offense. Edge rarely faces many defenders, because Peyton audibles half of the run calls into passes if there are 8 men in the box.

LT's also been good, but this San Diego offense was great last year when LT was hobbled with an ankle injury and din't do much all season. Drew Brees and Antonio Gates are key members of this offense as well.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Alexander is not the second best running back in the NFL. He should be ranked something like 7th to 12th.

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have you ever watched football?

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Yes. And, I actually pay attention to the guys who aren't carrying the football sometimes.

Shaun Alexander is like Clinton Portis. He looks much better than he actually is due to an awesome offensive line. A few years ago, everybody thought Portis was at least a top 3 NFL running back. Very few consider him even in the top 10 now.

There's a good chance Alexander will be playing elsewhere next season. He will be exposed then.

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Wow, do I disagree. Since when has the Seattle O-line been considered otherworldly. Emmit Smith ran behind a great O-line, but he was STILL a great back, just not the best of his time. He has 82 Td's the last 4.7 years, and I bet there aren't more than 5 players EVER that have that beat. Now, saying he's 2nd best isn't a slight to him, as LT is an all-timer, but Shaun is a great RB, and pretty easily the 2nd best MINIMUM in the game right now. Whether he is in the future, I think he is, but he may not be. Your opinion is yours, but you have zero numbers backing it up. Barring injury, I'll take a 1300 yards and 14 TD bet with you for next season for him should he move.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Wow, do I disagree. Since when has the Seattle O-line been considered otherworldly.

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Um, a long time. Pay attention sometimes, k?

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Wow, do I disagree. Since when has the Seattle O-line been considered otherworldly.

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Um, a long time. Pay attention sometimes, k?

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One 4 time all-star and a 3 time reserve do not "otherworldy" make. There are at LEAST 5 other teams that have similar resumes. For otherworldly, I submit the 1995 pro bowl OL players;

Larry Allen - dal
Lomas Brown - det
Randall McDaniel - min
William Roaf - nor
Kevin Glover - det
Nate Newton - dal
Mark Tuinei - dal
Ray Donaldson - dal
Bart Oates - sfo

Oh, and nice wimp out on the 1500/15 bet. This IS a poker site. People gamble here, k?

Re: NFL running backs
 

Um, yeah, and most people consider Emmith Smith overrated, you know. I consider him great because of his durability, but he rarely had great seasons.

Walter Jones, the Seahawks LT, is the Peyton Manning of OLs. He is very likely the best player in all of football. He is the true MVP of the Seahawks. Steve Hutchinson is the Carson Palmer of OLs. Together, not only do they open lanes for Shaun to the left, they force people to overcompensate either opening lanes to the right or letting Matt Hasselbeck throw it to talentless WRs.

As for the bet: there are too many assumptions being made on my offhand remark for me to make a serious wager. First of all, it assumes things such as

a) Mo Morris will be the Seahawks RB
b) Mo Morris will not get injured
c) the Seahawks line stays intact

Plus, I'm a poor college student with little to wager.

Besides, even if my money's not at stake, my credibility surely is. Keep this in your favorites and bump it if Mo Morris is a flop. I doubt he will be; he's got a career ypc mark of 5.3. He ran for over 104 yards on 8 carries vs the Texans.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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but he rarely had great seasons

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1992- 1713 rush yds, 4.6 avg, 339 rec yds, 19 TD
1994- 1484 rush yds, 4.0 avg, 341 rec yds, 22 TD
1995- 1773 rush yds, 4.7 avg, 375 rec yds, 25 TD

His 25 TD year in 1995 was a record at the time. I don't know what you consider a "great" year, but these three seasons fit the description in my book.

Also, while his o-line was great, Emmitt was the differnce maker in the Cowboys O. He was by far the most talanted and important of the famous Cowboys "trio". In his prime, Emmitt was a "great" running back. An all timer. Anyone who thinks he wasn't, is letting his post 30 performance carry too much weight in thier mind.

Re: NFL running backs
 

1992 and 1995 are great seasons; so was 1993. Why people are so hung up on TDs I'll never understand.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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1992 and 1995 are great seasons; so was 1993. Why people are so hung up on TDs I'll never understand.

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Because being able to get in the end zone from the one yard line is just as, if not more important, than running for five yards on first and ten at your own 30. TDs are also what make good seasons great.

Re: NFL running backs
 

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Because being able to get in the end zone from the one yard line is just as, if not more important, than running for five yards on first and ten at your own 30.

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No, it's far less important. Being able to run 5 yards on first and ten is much harder than running 1 yard at the goal line.

Re: NFL running backs
 

Running for 1-yard TDs is overrated in the same way as closing games in baseball.