do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

the turn gaybetter left the table before i could write down his stats but i know his vpip was 44.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.40 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.70 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 5.70 BB

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

I think without a strong read I would fold...

There are several nuts at 5/10 with 40 or so vpip who love to bet scare cards, but in this case it really seems like he was praying for an ace when he called on the flop.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
the turn gaybetter


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WTF is that? Tell me you don't describe things as being "gay".

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

Ohhhh... Hell no!


I raise and fold to a 3bet cause If you call the turn here you have to call the river. And he may just be making a "move" on the tight player. Why wouldn't he check/raise if he hit an ace? Because he's a moron? Yes that's certainly a good reason, but I still raise. No one donk bets me! Also, heads up in these situations I like to check behind with position and call a river bet, rather than bet/fold to a raise or bet/fold a worse hand that's way behind.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the turn gaybetter


[/ QUOTE ]

WTF is that? Tell me you don't describe things as being "gay".

[/ QUOTE ]

have you never read this board before? now get out of my thread you aids ridden bag of corn.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Ohhhh... Hell no!


I raise and fold to a 3bet cause If you call the turn here you have to call the river. And he may just be making a "move" on the tight player. Why wouldn't he check/raise if he hit an ace? Because he's a moron? Yes that's certainly a good reason, but I still raise. No one donk bets me! Also, heads up in these situations I like to check behind with position and call a river bet, rather than bet/fold to a raise or bet/fold a worse hand that's way behind.

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If you are raising this turn then you should be betting the river, otherwise you don't gain enough from the turn raise. He bet into two of you, I dig the fold.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ohhhh... Hell no!


I raise and fold to a 3bet cause If you call the turn here you have to call the river. And he may just be making a "move" on the tight player. Why wouldn't he check/raise if he hit an ace? Because he's a moron? Yes that's certainly a good reason, but I still raise. No one donk bets me! Also, heads up in these situations I like to check behind with position and call a river bet, rather than bet/fold to a raise or bet/fold a worse hand that's way behind.

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If you are raising this turn then you should be betting the river, otherwise you don't gain enough from the turn raise. He bet into two of you, I dig the fold.

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If he calls the turn that means he has Ax and a river bet will just be called. If you're going to call here and call the river UI than you might as well raise the turn/fold to a 3bet/fold to river stop n go.

Or you can fold.


But no one donk bets me.

No one! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]



Ahem. I often see hands like 66-99 in these situations. That's my main reason the raise. When the ace hits they get confused with their overpair and donk. A weak ace they will usually check/call or a strong one check/raise. But the pot is small so a fold ain't bad. Raising the turn is also good for meta-game image reasons. They must fear the turn when playing against you. Fear I say! Fear!

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the turn gaybetter


[/ QUOTE ]

WTF is that? Tell me you don't describe things as being "gay".

[/ QUOTE ]

have you never read this board before? now get out of my thread you aids ridden bag of corn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey!!! I'm not a bag of corn.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ohhhh... Hell no!


I raise and fold to a 3bet cause If you call the turn here you have to call the river. And he may just be making a "move" on the tight player. Why wouldn't he check/raise if he hit an ace? Because he's a moron? Yes that's certainly a good reason, but I still raise. No one donk bets me! Also, heads up in these situations I like to check behind with position and call a river bet, rather than bet/fold to a raise or bet/fold a worse hand that's way behind.

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If you are raising this turn then you should be betting the river, otherwise you don't gain enough from the turn raise. He bet into two of you, I dig the fold.

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If he calls the turn that means he has Ax and a river bet will just be called. If you're going to call here and call the river UI than you might as well raise the turn/fold to a 3bet/fold to river stop n go.

Or you can fold.


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Okay the meta-game reasons I can get behind, but the winning the most money reason seems to me to be if you aren't folding, call turn call river. If you reraise the turn, and he calls you will assume you are beat. If you reraise and he folds, you lose the potential that he will continue betting the worst hand on the river. What does the reraise accomplish aside from a FEAR ME sort of meta game satisfaction?

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

Yea that's true. But you can get BB to fold. And you can get him to fold a hand that he wouldn't continue bluffing on the river, but a hand he will only bet if he improves. Like a pocket pair that hits a two outer.

Let's say you just call and then he checks the river. Do you bet? I vote yes.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

w/o knowing his stats, I fold. The pot isn't big enough

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

I forgot to add that even though he may have a hand like 88 or 99 that he would continue to bluff the river with he may also call the turn raise and check the river, therby you make the same anyway along with all the previous advantages I stated. I've seen this may times. I'll raise the river with my 2nd pair after a donk and they call with 3rd pair anyway hoping to hit trips on river.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yea that's true. But you can get BB to fold. And you can get him to fold a hand that he wouldn't continue bluffing on the river, but a hand he will only bet if he improves. Like a pocket pair that hits a two outer.

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Who cares about BB folding? There's a pair on the flop, so if BB makes 2 pair, you win with your higher 2 pair. If the pot was gigantic, then you would have a bit of an excuse to spew some chips raise BB off of a gutshot that he's not holding.

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Let's say you just call and then he checks the river. Do you bet? I vote yes.

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Raising the turn is so much worse than just folding or even calling, but not taking the free showdown you paid for is worse.

If you make a bad read and put him on a hand like 99 - and there's no reason to think someone who donkbets this turn with 99 doesn't show strength on the flop - then raising the turn scares him off. Your best line if you think he is FOS is call/call or if he checks the river after your turn call, you can bet.

Also, a 44 VPIP player doesn't fold a weak ace to a turn raise.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

I never said he's folding a weak ace. I know that.

And i didn't mean to bet after raising the turn and checked too. I meant betting if you just call the turn and he checks river.

Re: do you fold KK to this turn ace?
 

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And i didn't mean to bet after raising the turn and checked too. I meant betting if you just call the turn and he checks river.

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My mistake. But I still think folding the turn is better.