River spot
 

Full table 30/60 party. I'm not at my computer so I don't have any stats on anyone. I'm 2 tabling so I'm paying pretty good attention.

A really bad player limps, I raise A9o in the co, unkown sb and bb call, limper calls. 4 players for 2 bets.

flop A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

sb checks bb bets, bad player folds, i call (yes, sometimes I raise), sb folds.

Turn 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

he bets I call.

River 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

he checks i ?

Re: River spot
 

I bet and fold to a raise.

Re: River spot
 

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I bet and fold to a raise.

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Re: River spot
 

Looks like an easy bet, am I missing something BK?

Re: River spot
 

this could be a PP. But any Ax beats you almost (A3,A5,A8). I don't really see much point in betting. This COULD be a trap. If it isn't, what calls? He has to figure us for better than 88 at least. Could he call with K-high missed flush? I think I check this down. just as likely to see AT as A8.

Re: River spot
 

Bet. I know you're thinking "but most lower aces have made two pair now" but I really bet he has A3 or A5 far more often than two pair trying to c/r you since why should he be expecting you to bet a river when you've just called called on this board? If you're totally uncomfortable betting because you want to get a read, then check behind.

Re: River spot
 

Im thinking a flop or turn raise helps hand play out smoother. Any reasons not to raise?

Re: River spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet. I know you're thinking "but most lower aces have made two pair now" but I really bet he has A3 or A5 far more often than two pair trying to c/r you since why should he be expecting you to bet a river when you've just called called on this board?

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Re: River spot
 

I bet because after all "they want to call, they really want to call". Of course I rarely find areas were check raising the river is my play but, checkraising a good player who I think has an ace is one of those areas. I'm tricky enough that they will call and a good player will almost never skip the opportunity to bet an pair of aces heads up.

Re: River spot
 

BB will just call here with a worse hand enough that even if the rare few times you did get checkraised and called to lose to a better hand this is still a value bet.

and I would still call even if I got checkraised since I got no stats and I'm 2tabling so a read would be very profitable since from CO I will be raising BB's blind quite often.

Re: River spot
 

i think betting and folding stinks. The hands that will pay off are A3 A5 88 99 TT (can't remember the high card on the board, but i'm assuming he can't have jacks, and even 99 or TT seems like a stretch). Also, he could easily have AT or AJ and check for the same reason we might - you could have easily made two pair.

My point is very few hands will pay off here, and it really seems like betting is marginal enough that it might be better to get to see his hand, betting and folding you lose a bet and can't see his hand; so checking seems better cause we miss a bet, occasionally save a bet and get to see his hand. I'm not advocating always checking these types of hands, but if you are paying attention then reads can be very profitable, plus you migt be losing here a lot.

Not to mention the image you generate for yourself when you show this hand, people will think you are weak after this hand, and will help you pick up a pot or two.

Re: River spot
 

he likely has ace-poop. I often like to pop the turn and check the river in thse spots unless i improve.

Re: River spot
 

He checks, u check. He only calls if he has you beat or with Ace lower kicker. Ace lower kicker is probably paired. Just check.

Re: River spot
 

You should probably raise the turn and take the free showdown when the 7 shows up if you can, in case your opponent has the flush draw.

I would check against tighter BB and bet against loose ones, since unknown - check.

Re: River spot
 

imagine if he had like a king high diamond draw with no pair? a river checkraise by him would be awesome.

Re: River spot
 

I'd raise turn and check river.

Re: River spot
 

Well, I see players bet a pocket pair down to the River and then ck/call; so we have KK-88 * 6 = 42 hands we beat. I believe, however, that the BB would re-raise preflop with KK & I would also re-raise with QQ.

Because of the Flop and the fact it is the BB who called for 1 bet, he could be leading out with 33 & 55, so we have 12 more hands we beat.

The only Ax we beat is A5, 3 & 8 and because of the Flop, he could have been betting those hands also.

He is probably going to call with all hands, however, I would ck/raise with all hands, if I thought there was a 1 in 5 chance you would fold. I would also ck/raise with a busted flush draw.

So, you can't bet the River against me, unless you're willing to call the raise. I ck/raise AK, trips and two pair also.

Re: River spot
 

I say to myself "ok i'll bet and fold to a check raise" then I bet and if he check raises I convince myself he could be making a last desperation bluff and i eventually call.

FWIW though IMO he is very rarely c/r'ing here with a hand that beats you.

-DrG

Re: River spot
 

If the only read we have is "really bad" I like to bet. I think a c/c with a weaker hand is much more common than a c/r or a stronger hand going for c/c. The only close question for me would if it is bet-call or bet-fold.

I would probably bet-call, but I am not convinced it is better than bet-fold.