Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Lets say I have Canadian citizenship, but I have lived in the US all my life and do not have US citizenship, what countries are on top of my list as far as where I would want to live to only play primarily online poker for a living? Mostly for tax law, but obviously living conditions/cost of living/etc factor in. Gibraltar? Monaco? Aruba? I think Aruba would give me access to good live games as well. Any feedback at all is appreciated.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

There is no tax on poker or gambling winnings in the UK.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

I'm going to visit the tax manager of the firm I used to work at, and find out if this is true, my suspicion is that it's only true for hobby players.

Mack

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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I'm going to visit the tax manager of the firm I used to work at, and find out if this is true, my suspicion is that it's only true for hobby players.

Mack

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Your suspicion is incorrect, gambling winnings are subject to a tax rate of 0% there is no cut off to a higher level.

Player sponsorship may be another matter and if you were purely playing as a pro then you may want to keep your ni stamp up but apart form that then there is nothing to pay.

I can see this changing in the future but there will be one hell of an uproar when it does, its hard to say when a hobby ends and a living starts.

There an article somwhere on the mob site that explains it in more detail.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Aruba, Costa Rica, UK and actually Sweden* off the top of my head.

*) Well, as long as you play only on EU sites, but since most have moved to Gibraltar that's easily accomplished. PokerStars is the only nice site not in the EU pretty much.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Article - With case law as backup

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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I'm going to visit the tax manager of the firm I used to work at, and find out if this is true, my suspicion is that it's only true for hobby players.

Mack

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Your suspicion is incorrect, gambling winnings are subject to a tax rate of 0% there is no cut off to a higher level.

Player sponsorship may be another matter and if you were purely playing as a pro then you may want to keep your ni stamp up but apart form that then there is nothing to pay.

I can see this changing in the future but there will be one hell of an uproar when it does, its hard to say when a hobby ends and a living starts.

There an article somwhere on the mob site that explains it in more detail.

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Hope so, we'll need a case to find out, this online thing has really opened a can of worms as far as I'm concerned.

Mack

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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There is no tax on poker or gambling winnings in the UK.

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Same for Canada, but add Lottery winnings to that list too (chances are slim that you'll win the lottery, but it's still nice to know that you get to keep it all)

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

If the poker site is in Gibraltar,UK or any other EU country with 0 tax on gambling you don't pay taxes for it in ANY EU country.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Incorrect.

Gambling income for professional gamblers is taxable income in Canada.

see: Alvin J. Luprypa, Appellant, and Her Majesty The Queen, Respondent 1997 CarswellNat 765, [1997] 3 C.T.C. 2363, 97 D.T.C. 1416

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Incorrect.

Gambling income for professional gamblers is taxable income in Canada.

see: Alvin J. Luprypa, Appellant, and Her Majesty The Queen, Respondent 1997 CarswellNat 765, [1997] 3 C.T.C. 2363, 97 D.T.C. 1416

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But not for amateurs, correct? How is the dinstinction made?

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

gambling is tax free in Canada, unless it is your primary source of income and your other income is not sufficent to live off of. Although if u dotn report they can only hit you with the taxes and no penalties.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

My understanding is that to be taxable in Canada gambling has to be your primary source of income. CRA must be able to show that you approach poker in a systematic manner, with a reasonable expectation of profit, and that it is your primary source of income. If you have a full time or even part time job you can make a strong argument that gambling is not your primary source of income and hence not taxable.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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My understanding is that to be taxable in Canada gambling has to be your primary source of income. CRA must be able to show that you approach poker in a systematic manner, with a reasonable expectation of profit, and that it is your primary source of income. If you have a full time or even part time job you can make a strong argument that gambling is not your primary source of income and hence not taxable.

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That is I must say an emminently sensible way of doing things.

Mack

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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My understanding is that to be taxable in Canada gambling has to be your primary source of income. CRA must be able to show that you approach poker in a systematic manner, with a reasonable expectation of profit, and that it is your primary source of income. If you have a full time or even part time job you can make a strong argument that gambling is not your primary source of income and hence not taxable.

[/ QUOTE ]you are wrong about a few things.
firstly, it's the taxpayer's onus to prove that he is a recreational player, not the other way around.
secondly, even if it is not your primary source of income it may be taxable, it is a case by case basis depending on many factors including things you mentioned above.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Keep in mind guys, poker will be the ONLY source of income for me. That means I am looking for low income tax. I know for a fact Revenue Canada CAN come after you if you are generating enough profit and your net worth is high enough for them to care. I would not pay any income tax in the UK? What about property tax etc?

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

I am not quite sure what you mean by property tax - you would be required to pay a council tax on any property you rent or buy this increases depending on the size of the house. Typically though you would expect to pay no more than £1000-£1500 per annum on this. Cost of living is pretty high over here though the average gas/electricity bill is running in the region of £800 per year now. Petrol in 90p per gallon and depending on where you would like to stay - Renting or purchasing would most definitely not be cheap especially if you are planning on staying in London which is vastly overpriced.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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If the poker site is in Gibraltar,UK or any other EU country with 0 tax on gambling you don't pay taxes for it in ANY EU country.

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Actually that isn't true. The EG court has only decided that taxing winnings from other countries while leaving domestic winnings untaxed is a free trade violation.

Double taxation deals never enter into it. (I personally think they should, but today it doesn't look like they actually do.)

I don't know if any EU country actually does tax gambling winnings, but they are certainly free to do so from an EU standpoint, as long as they apply the exact same taxes to domestic winnings.

As there isn't a directive stating what is and isn't gambling a country could probably even get away with declaring poker a game of skill, tax it as such, and maintain a tax free national lottery without the EG court being able to do a damn thing about it.

Overall all forms of tax law where you physically are in another country from where you 'actually' work is still kinda muddy. Going to be a few more years until serious legislation is done on this.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Are you looking to give up your US citizenship? If you arent then you still have to pay US taxes.

I dont understand people wanting to live somewhere abroad that doesn't tax gambling winnings -- they will never out that you are 8 tabling Party, nor do they have any means or desire to find out, so what is the point?

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

I don't have US citizenship. I have residency, and I live here, but I have Canadian citizenship. I have also not had anything to do with Canada in decades. They may not be able to figure out I am 8-tabling party, but they will be asking questions when I am paying my bills and buying things without a source of income (IRS especially, I don't know of Revenue Canada actually tracking down people but it is certainly within their right if you have enough for them to care). Therefor I am looking for a country that is lenient towards all of that, with low overall taxes, good living conditions at a reasonable cost, keeping in mind poker being the only source of income. Just trying to figure out which country is closer to that Utopia I am hoping for.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

The point is that if you are not US citizen you can legally earn money in another country not paying high taxes. For example if my country decide to tax poker winnings I can go to UK and legally play there and have my money without paying taxes. I can even come back to Poland if I hve resident status in UK and then spend whatever I want without paying polish taxes. Of course if you are US citizen then you are screwed.

Best wishes

EDIT: Probably I can even go to Thailand and pay their taxes if they have any without caring about my mother country. Viva UE !

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Well, if we want to be really cheap, and we do, don't we, then you should also look into things like how good is the socialised health care? How good are public schools? That sort of thing. Then there is the cost of living. How expensive are groceries, living, a restaurant meal?

If I were you I'd go with a EU country which doesn't tax gambling winnings. The UK is probably the easiest, you already speak the language. It's a somewhat dreary place to live though, unless you love cold rain.

No idea on their immigration laws though.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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Of course if you are US citizen then you are screwed.


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NH.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

What would I be paying as income tax and other taxes in the UK if poker was my only source of income? Obviously they will find it fishy that I am paying bills without a job. What AM I obligated to pay if I am living in the UK? Theres no way I can live there and get away without paying any taxes on all of my income is there? No income tax period in my case? I don't see how that would fly..

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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What would I be paying as income tax and other taxes in the UK if poker was my only source of income? Obviously they will find it fishy that I am paying bills without a job. What AM I obligated to pay if I am living in the UK? Theres no way I can live there and get away without paying any taxes on all of my income is there? No income tax period in my case? I don't see how that would fly..

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why cant you just stay there on a tourist visa, then leave and come back when it expires, telling them nothing about your gambling earnings. Canada no longer can tax you because you arent living there (i think these are their rules)?

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

I haven't paid anything to Canada EVER, and I doubt I would suddenly be liable to them if I moved to the UK. If I moved to the UK I would like to be able to get residency. I still don't really know what all I would be responsible for paying , as I don't see how I could get by without paying any income tax whatsoever while living there. If Revenue Canada is capable of coming after people, surely the UK has some way of combating this as well, right? And if not the UK itself, the European whatever courts can I think. Everyone I ask gives me different answers to the same questions as far as tax law goes for ANY country, and this is a PITA . [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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I haven't paid anything to Canada EVER, and I doubt I would suddenly be liable to them if I moved to the UK. If I moved to the UK I would like to be able to get residency. I still don't really know what all I would be responsible for paying , as I don't see how I could get by without paying any income tax whatsoever while living there. If Revenue Canada is capable of coming after people, surely the UK has some way of combating this as well, right? And if not the UK itself, the European whatever courts can I think. Everyone I ask gives me different answers to the same questions as far as tax law goes for ANY country, and this is a PITA . [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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Do you have a family? Otherwises, I dont understand why you want residency unless you just want to avoid having to leave the country every so often. Perhaps you can apply for a visa for studying or volunteering for a orphanage.

If you do have a family, I have no idea how that works (getting residency as a pro gambler).

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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What would I be paying as income tax and other taxes in the UK if poker was my only source of income?

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I dont think you pay anything, ever.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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What would I be paying as income tax and other taxes in the UK if poker was my only source of income? Obviously they will find it fishy that I am paying bills without a job. What AM I obligated to pay if I am living in the UK?

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There is a small property tax, and that's about it as far as I can gather. Been entertaining the idea of moving there myself if the upcoming legislation on poker income swings the wrong way here in Sweden.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

You would have to pay council tax to the local authority where you live, varies by price of the property you live in, my 3 bedroom house in Essex costs me £800 a year roughly.

A large part of UK taxation is made up of sales taxes and duties, so while you wouldn't incur income tax on your poker profits you will pay 17.5% sales tax (we call it V.A.T.) on just about everything you buy this is generally already included in the ticket price on the items in the shops. (basic foodstuffs, books and childrens clothing are about the only things exempt from this)

Petrol is very expensive compared to the US due to fuel duties - expect to pay £4 ($8) a Gallon

If you smoke or drink you'll get hit hard with duties there, Expect to pay around £4 ($8) for a pack of 20 ciggies, £2 ($4) for a pint of beer in a pub(more in nightclubs or upmarket places) and £15 ($30) for a bottle of Jack Daniels from a supermarket.

OTOH The tipping epedemic that is so wdespread in the US hasn't taken hold in these shores yet, so you can walk the streets without being expected to give handouts to everyone you deal with on a daily basis!

Mat

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

the cost of alcohol and smokes would negate any income tax advantage. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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If you smoke or drink you'll get hit hard with duties there, Expect to pay around £4 ($8) for a pack of 20 ciggies, £2 ($4) for a pint of beer in a pub(more in nightclubs or upmarket places) and £15 ($30) for a bottle of Jack Daniels from a supermarket.


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those are the same prices as in NJ, not much different

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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If you smoke or drink you'll get hit hard with duties there, Expect to pay around £4 ($8) for a pack of 20 ciggies, £2 ($4) for a pint of beer in a pub(more in nightclubs or upmarket places) and £15 ($30) for a bottle of Jack Daniels from a supermarket.


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those are the same prices as in NJ, not much different

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But the chicks are so much hotter!!!!

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

out of curiosity, how do they distinguish if poker is your primary source of income? do they look at how much % your poker income is in comparison to your annual income or...what?

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

LOL

I spent a month living in small town Florida once - trust me it was much drearier than the UK even if the sun did shine !

UK has no tax on gambling winnings and you could always just use it as a base whilst you travelled around playing poker - all you need is a laptop + internet connection or even an internet cafe right? Fiji, Oz, New Zealand, Thailand, Estonia, Denmark, Italy, Spain, Prague - all nice places to be [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Not sure if Uncle Sam taxes you when out of the country anyway - I know that unless you spend 90+ days/year in the UK you aren't ever classed as tax resident there

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Gambling winnings are not taxed at all in UK.
Nor does playing poker count as a trade or job so I can't see that it would even be breaking the terms of a tourist visa. I think there is also a longer working visa available to Canadians but you would need to check that.
Any UK grandparents would entitle you to UK passport anyway - any EU grandparents would probably enable immigration to be honest.

Canadian citizens may be able to get access to free NHS healthcare - just check your travel guidebooks.. access to healthcare in the UK does not depend upon you being a taxpayer. If you are a tourist you might get cheap travel insurance anyway.

Cost of living is fairly high in most of the nicer cities but apart from a tax levied as a contirbution to local services (based on the value of the premises you are living in) averaging about £1000/yr there will be no other mandatory direct tax on you.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Grandparents are no longer sufficient to ensure a UK passport/citizenship. The only sure way is for your mother to be a UK citizen. Father is sufficient if he was legally married to your mother at the time of your birth in a jurisdiction recognized by the UK OR if you were born before Oct 1, 1982.

Also, without residency, the EU can bar you from entering on a tourist visa if they feel you're a de facto resident avoiding the immigration process. Once barred it is very, very difficult to reenter any EU country.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

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Incorrect.

Gambling income for professional gamblers is taxable income in Canada.

see: Alvin J. Luprypa, Appellant, and Her Majesty The Queen, Respondent 1997 CarswellNat 765, [1997] 3 C.T.C. 2363, 97 D.T.C. 1416

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Only if this is your "primary" source of income.

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

I doubt the UK immigration service exactly focuses on Candians on tourist visas though ! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Country with most lenient tax law towards poker income?
 

Question: If you had citizenship with any other country besides the UK in the European Union, how would that change your ability to reside in the UK? Would I then be able to live there freely? I would assume it would at least make the process much easier..