QQ fold-able ??
 

First hand on this table and have come in on the BB....Have a few hands on SB & MP2.....as they are both multi-tabling on 1/2 tables that I am also playing....

They look like 25/8 type players....?



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($186)
Hero ($125)
UTG ($30.40)
UTG+1 ($27.25)
MP1 ($239.60)
MP2 ($73)
CO ($52.60)
Button ($33.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP2 calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $8</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, MP2 calls $14, CO folds, SB calls $8.

Flop: ($50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $18</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $36</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $18</font>, Hero ??

Is this a standard fold...?

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Why minreraise preflop?

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why minreraise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do u suggest I raise to...? Anything more is 20% of my stack...leaving me no room for flopplay...

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why minreraise preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do u suggest I raise to...? Anything more is 20% of my stack...leaving me no room for flopplay...

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't see your stack... but with a minraise you're giving the first raiser awesome odds to catch something, same with the other guy... And uh, 18$ into 50$ on the flop? You're just asking to be raised here

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

18$ into 50$ on the flop? You're just asking to be raised here

I agree, you probably want to bet more, or check-raise him. One of my big problems is underbetting pots as well, but I think you need to bet a minimum of $25 on this flop if you aren't going to attempt to check-raise.

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Mmm... I would make it about $40 preflop and prepared to get all in on any non A or K flop.

As played, this is a fold, he's not check minraising two players with anything you beat. Thank him for being a donkey and fold.

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
18$ into 50$ on the flop? You're just asking to be raised here

I agree, you probably want to bet more, or check-raise him. One of my big problems is underbetting pots as well, but I think you need to bet a minimum of $25 on this flop if you aren't going to attempt to check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I see that....There's a problem with my game that has me betting incorrect amounts and leaving myself difficult in situations....

I understand my flop bet is incorrect along with my PF raise...Problem is now...I have been raised and that has been raised.....Standard fold yet?

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

By the way, isn't a 4bb pre-flop raise pretty large for Pokerstars tight full-ring games? I haven't played full-ring there in a while, but I remember back when I was playing them the standard pre-flop raise was usually $6 for the $1/$2nl games. $8+ most times meant a big pocket pair of AK. I remember raising to 4bb's back in those games and many times everyone folding around much of the time. What's your thoughts on this?

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
18$ into 50$ on the flop? You're just asking to be raised here

I agree, you probably want to bet more, or check-raise him. One of my big problems is underbetting pots as well, but I think you need to bet a minimum of $25 on this flop if you aren't going to attempt to check-raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I see that....There's a problem with my game that has me betting incorrect amounts and leaving myself difficult in situations....

I understand my flop bet is incorrect along with my PF raise...Problem is now...I have been raised and that has been raised.....Standard fold yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, he does have 88-JJ in his hand range for sure, question is how likely is it for him to have something else that beats you? Against 2players like this where you've underbet the pot twice it's very hard to know and I'd like to play safe and fold, but you are probably ahead here some of the time

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, isn't a 4bb pre-flop raise pretty large for Pokerstars tight full-ring games? I haven't played full-ring there in a while, but I remember back when I was playing them the standard pre-flop raise was usually $6 for the $1/$2nl games. $8+ most times meant a big pocket pair of AK. I remember raising to 4bb's back in those games and many times everyone folding around much of the time. What's your thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was 6-tabling yesterday evening and all 6 tables were 9 handed (full tables) and 28-32/7 tables......which IMO is more looser than the party $1/$2 that I have been playing lately.......

Most of the raising on all of these tables was to $10....at the very least, there was a lot of re-raising preflop .....Admittedly the stacks are not deep enough for all that sort of behaviour....

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Mmm... I would make it about $40 preflop and prepared to get all in on any non A or K flop.

Wouldn't raising to $40 pre-flop mean you're either going to pick up $8, or get raised all-in if someone has AA or KK. Are you planning on calling if you get raised all-in???

As played, this is a fold, he's not check minraising two players with anything you beat. Thank him for being a donkey and fold.

I agree.

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

The problem here IMO is putting them on hands... SB's line makes no sense, I can't put him on anything but 77-JJ(and QQ-AA I guess) since you say he has standard tag preflop stats, so I'm more worried about MP2, who still only has shown you that he minraises your severly undersized flop bet.

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
The problem here IMO is putting them on hands... SB's line makes no sense, I can't put him on anything but 77-JJ(and QQ-AA I guess) since you say he has standard tag preflop stats, so I'm more worried about MP2, who still only has shown you that he minraises your severly undersized flop bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well MP2 worried me as he limped-called PF and has re-raised the flop under-bet...

SB has shown strength being the initial PF raiser and has now re-raised MP2.....

I am behind 77, 55, 33 , KK, AA, 64......

If i do anything I have to push ???

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Meh, I considered editing my post after I read it. Perhaps $40 is too much. I usually reraise very strongly out of the blinds with queens because I hate playing them out of position and am happy picking the pot up preflop, but that's less of a consideration since Hero has such a shallow stack.

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Most of the raising on all of these tables was to $10....at the very least

Wow. Maybe I should try Stars full ring games again. Pre-flop when I played was a standard $6. I see Stars has a lot more players at their site now though. A lot of fish in the games? What's your PT bb/100 in those games?

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

If i do anything I have to push ???

It's a tough spot. If I was hoping he's a fish and calling with 88-JJ I'm pushing. If I'm really trying to play my A game, I'm folding there, because if he's a decent player, he's only calling an all-in with a better hand, and you re-raised pre-flop, so he already knows you probably have a pocket pair when you raise him up pre-flop and bet the flop. He is probably min.-raising to get you committed to the pot so he can get the rest of your stack on the turn and river. The only way I'm pushing is if I'm playing crappy like I have been lately, or if I know he's a fish and will definitely call with 88-JJ. I'd have to have good reads on him for that though.

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]
Most of the raising on all of these tables was to $10....at the very least

Wow. Maybe I should try Stars full ring games again. Pre-flop when I played was a standard $6. I see Stars has a lot more players at their site now though. A lot of fish in the games? What's your PT bb/100 in those games?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well last night was the first time I played in a while....But the play was juicier IMO...

I finished up +5PTbb/100 after 600 or so hands....It would have been much better .... but thats the next hand I Post....

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

[ QUOTE ]

If i do anything I have to push ???

It's a tough spot. If I was hoping he's a fish and calling with 88-JJ I'm pushing. If I'm really trying to play my A game, I'm folding there, because if he's a decent player, he's only calling an all-in with a better hand, and you re-raised pre-flop, so he already knows you probably have a pocket pair when you raise him up pre-flop and bet the flop. He is probably min.-raising to get you committed to the pot so he can get the rest of your stack on the turn and river. The only way I'm pushing is if I'm playing crappy like I have been lately, or if I know he's a fish and will definitely call with 88-JJ. I'd have to have good reads on him for that though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I kind of got the responses I needed to hear....

I folded....MP2 pushed and SB called....

Flop: ($50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $18</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $36</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $18</font>, Hero folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises to $57</font>, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($146) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: ($146) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $146

Results:

SB showed Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
MP2 showed A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Heh, I thought one of them had 77, but overpairs made more sense, nice fold

Re: QQ fold-able ??
 

Good fold. I didn't even notice that there was another player involved. Forget all that 88-JJ stuff I was babbling about. It's a 100% fold with 2 other players involved. I need some sleep.