Start of sessions
 

Is it me or does this happen to everyone.

Id say 4 of 5 sessions I play I start out losing. Sometimes 3-4 BB per 100 then I catch up.

Bad beats, better hands (KK vs AA).

Is there some minor variance theory to cover this?

Very few times I start off like a rocket winning tons of money.

Re: Start of sessions
 

Not just you; 7-9x/10 I start off by going in the hole (immediately) and spend the next N mins working back to 0. Frustrating because of the realization that that potential profit time is now lost (times 2).

What I don't get is why good "luck" doesn't come in the same amount as bad - even-steven. Seems like good "luck" is this little shimmering flicker that lasts just long enough to notice it; then just as quickly it's gone...

Mike

Re: Start of sessions
 

I suspect its that since you are new to the tables you have no info on the other players. That slight disadvantage can cost you. You dont know whos the fish, who is the TAG thats has been unlucky, who is the average player, the calling station, and so on. So your plays are standard and you either miss bets or lose bets to them.

Like you have TP medium kicker and the LAG at the table decides to bluff you on the turn with nothing. You might fold to the unknown, but if you realized what the 40% VPIP, 22% PFR, 3.5 TAF does youd call him down.

Of course a little loss might make you tilt a little, and then it avalanches.

Tonight I started with my good hands cracked by fish. down $180 in 30 mins. After 30 mins the back to build up started from the slump.

Just hate it that it happens. I usually seem to win in the end but yea it sucks always starting down my sessions. No even-stevens as you put it.

But then again it does not take much variance to shift you 1 BB/100 in earnings. I'd say tonight $100 of that lost were my mistakes. I take breaks every 2 hours. WSD% 42% tonight, BLEK!

Re: Start of sessions
 

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Id say 4 of 5 sessions I play I start out losing.

[/ QUOTE ]
When we’re in the zone, we’re in a state of focused attention or energy. It’s a special place where performance is enhanced.

One way to get into the zone is to perform for a little while. However, a heart surgeon who starts work at 6:00 a.m. needs to be in the zone immediately. The surgeon will learn to get there while scrubbing. Likewise, poker players can establish a routine to enable us to get to that special place. Rushing to our tournament tables isn’t conducive to our goal.

I think that’s maybe why Norman Chad says to always fold your first hand at a poker table – it’s part of the routine. Of course, he also says that sometimes you’re forced into playing that hand.

Re: Start of sessions
 

Do not forget that whenever you enter a new game you must initially put money in play involuntarily (blind(s). Next remember that whenever you do put money in voluntarily that you are almost never a huge favorite to win the hand. In fact if there are more than one opponent which is almost always the case you may be a favorite against each opponent but a dog against the field. These are just a few reasons why you might start out losing on a lot of sessions even though you are a winning player.

Vince

Re: Start of sessions
 

Yeah I agree, it just a certain placebo that we some how aquire to put us in a state of zen. But with the KK AA pre flop i just go all in anyway cause they think im bluffin and they can call and your winning right there and just hope nothin helps them.

Re: Start of sessions
 

No, it does not happen to everyone. If it consistently happens to you, it's a leak that can be fixed.

However, you may be misled by hindsight. Every poker session has ups and downs. It's highly unlikely you will be up for the entire session, just as a baseball team rarely leads its division every day of the season. At the end of the session, however much you won in the end, you will almost always be able to look back and remember a point at which you were a net loser.

For example, suppose you flip a coin with someone 1,000 times. Even if you win by the end, you expect to be down by 12 flips on average at some point before the end (if you lose, you expect to be down 37 flips at some point). Only about 5% of the time will you never be behind.

Re: Start of sessions
 

i haven't thought this thru, and i haven't read the entire thread.

but what % of hands that we put $$$$ into do we win? i'd think it's less than 25% (including blinds), so getting off to a rough start isn't too surprising. in fact, you should expect it.

Re: Start of sessions
 

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No, it does not happen to everyone. If it consistently happens to you, it's a leak that can be fixed.

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Huh? If we won >= 50% of the hands we play maybe you have a point. In the long run no one wins at anywhere near that rate; therefore IMM it's impossible to say that losing when sitting down "is a leak". If you have a "fix" for this "leak" I'd like to be proven wrong...

Mike

Re: Start of sessions
 

This happens because to enter a new game you must put money in the pot blindly. Also, if you don't post behind, you will also start with bad position. It takes a while to get a hand you will then play and when you do, it's not like you win every hand you play. You start out behind.

The other reason is that most good players start out extra tight until they have a feel for their table and then they can decide how they want to play. You may pay a few blinds before you really start playing.

Re: Start of sessions
 

[ QUOTE ]
This happens because to enter a new game you must put money in the pot blindly. Also, if you don't post behind, you will also start with bad position. It takes a while to get a hand you will then play and when you do, it's not like you win every hand you play. You start out behind.

The other reason is that most good players start out extra tight until they have a feel for their table and then they can decide how they want to play. You may pay a few blinds before you really start playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this post. The latter point, imo, is especially true in NL tables. I'm much more reluctant to play a potential trouble hand like AJo early in a session because I'm not sure how the other players are likely to act. So, I get blinded away a little bit until I develop a feel for how the table is playing and how to play different types of hands.

Re: Start of sessions
 

I was not precise. If your win rate during, say, the first hour of play is consistently less than your average win rate, that is a problem to be addressed.

However, as both of us said in different ways, it is usually the case that there will be some point during the play when you are down. So it's not a leak if you find that 90% of the time you lose money on the round of hands, or if 90% of the time you find yourself down at some point during the first hour.

Re: Start of sessions
 

I did a lot of thinking about this. I continue to almost always start off down then come back up later within the hour. I think its partially because of the following.

1. your image is not set.
2. you have no information on your opponents.
3. you really can't bluff.

I think #2 is the most important. I know when I play if I have a read on a player, fish, LAG, TAG, I alter my play to each player. Some fish I will always fold without a strong hand to a raise, some I will always call just about because they bluff so much. When facing unknowns you don't know anything so you play incorrectly against specific players. I have seen players bluff the new guy at the table or raise on the turn top pair with crap kicker when I hold top pair top kicker or something similar.

All this extra information is what makes a solid player go 2+ BB per 100. If rake was taken out I would be profitable more than 50% of the time starting out within the 1st hour. Since you have to overcome the rake and lack information on your players you technically make mistakes. Thus lose money.

Just my theory. I expect to start off losing so it never affects me. The other night I turned my -$50 within 20 mins to +$230 in 2 hours at 3/6.

Re: Start of sessions
 

Your image may help you, again it may hurt you. Same with having an unknown image. If no one knows anything about me, I may get early calldowns with garabge when I have a good hand, or people may fold a better hand to a semi-bluff/free showdown raise.

Likewise, I have no info on others, but they have no info on me. This is partially alleviated by the assumption that if you are better than the other players, you also presumably use your info about them better than they use their info about you.

And you can bluff, you just have less info and have to make more board-based decisions than player-based ones, which reduces your ability to do it, but by no means stops you from making probable profitable bluffs.

I really think this is more likely than not the same issue that causes people to claim that "Aces never win" or "73s is my hand, I always win with it", just selective memory, plus the initial blinds that put you down from the get-go since you start posting and OOP. I'd really be interested to see graphs of the course of single-table sessions. Otherwise I suspect the effects are fairly minimal, but I could be wrong.

Re: Start of sessions
 

Of course you start negative. You lose 2 or 3 hands for every one you win. Unless you hit that winning hand right off, you'll go into the hole before you hit a hand or two and pull into the black.

Re: Start of sessions
 

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Of course you start negative. You lose 2 or 3 hands for every one you win. Unless you hit that winning hand right off, you'll go into the hole before you hit a hand or two and pull into the black.

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I like that; plain, simple, sensible.

I've also noticed (maybe selectively?) that if I'm able to splash around as soon as I sit down, the session usually goes much much better for me than if I have to wait a long time for something to play. Maybe that's the image part somebody already mentioned; or maybe a "confidence boost" thing for me; aren't sure...

Mike

Re: Start of sessions
 

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Id say 4 of 5 sessions I play I start out losing. Sometimes 3-4 BB per 100 then I catch up.

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Why bother letting your thoughts get distracted on something like this? If you're beating the game, it shouldn't matter whether you're in the 1st hand or 1,000th hand of a session. If you're not beating the game, then it shouldn't matter either.

These kinds of thoughts are just like the other fables and phobias like stop loss money management, quitting while you're ahead, pushing your luck because you're on a good run, changing your strategy because the cards are running bad, etc., etc., etc.

Re: Start of sessions
 

Interesting point. Although I rarely remember doing backflips after 2 hours where I just beat the crap out of my tables from the get go. In 2 years it has happened rarely. But man when it does, ooooooooh boy its like a giant boulder at the top of a mossy hil and I just gave it a little nudge.

No usually I take a good 2-3 BB per 100 beating for the first 20 mins then it comes back slowly. Very strange. But maybe its because its 4 tables. I uess if you post 3/6 on 4 tables in the BB you pretty much auto lose $16, then you call a coupld times or raise and miss with all the loose action and poof your down $50. You make this up later though. Yea thats seems about right

Re: Start of sessions
 

I'm used to it. Doesnt bother me. In fact I prefer it to winning $100 off the bat then losing it. I think that affects your state of mind worse than losing up front.

It was more curiosity to why it happened and now I know.