Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

This hand occured playing 2-5 NL. The opponent in the hand is as nice and honest a guy as you'll meet, so I can almost guarantee he wasn't trying to pull any shananigans.

I go heads up to the river with the player sitting to my immediate right. He's led the action and there's apx. $130 in the pot. I make my baby flush on the river and he's first to act. With chips in his hand he thinks for a little bit. I'm watching him and the dealer says check.

Hearing this I quickly grab a stack of chips and cut out a $50 bet. As my chips go in the middle, opponent says "I didn't check." I finish cutting out my bet and he says "OK, leave it out their" and than he thinks and raises another $100. I quickly call and he shows a bigger flush.

I mention to him that the dealer said check, and ask how much he was going to bet. He said he was going to bet $100 and offers to give me $25 to split the additional money I lost on the river. I take it instead of making a fuss or calling the floor. If the floor comes over what would the ruling be?

This was the dealers last hand, the new dealer witnessed the hand and later verified that action happened as I described it.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

Are you sure the dealer didn't say "check?" as in: "Sir, was that a check?" I see dealers do this a lot.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

I guess I do not see the problem because you never folded.
If you would have checked after the dealer declared check, then I would be pissed, but you bet. He had the best hand and won while you voluntarily called his bet/raise, whatever you want to call it. You basically described a check-raise.

I am wondering why the guy gave you $25. Were you gonna give him some money back if you won?

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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I guess I do not see the problem because you never folded.


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Player A did not check. He was not planning on checking. He was going to bet $100 and Player B was going to call and just loose $100.

Dealer messes up. Player B bets $50 out of turn, by Player A's own statement. Player A check-raises $100 more, which Player B calls, making it $150 total he loses on the river, $50 more than he would have lost, had the hand been played in order. Player B realizes that the dealer's error [and his shady play] made him $50 extra, and gives half of it back.


opponent says "I didn't check."

At this point the dealer should stop daydreaming and stop the action. If Player A did not check, Player B takes his bet out and it is up to Player A to act first. No "OK, leave it out there". I am sure Player A would have insisted on acting first if Player B had indicated he wanted to check behind.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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I'm watching him and the dealer says check.


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if you were watching him, how did you not know he didnt check?

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

Argus, thanks for clarifying the situation. I note this though:

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Player A did not check. He was not planning on checking. He was going to bet $100 and Player B was going to call and just loose $100.

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Why would you want to "just lose $100"? Player B thought he had the best hand and called the psuedo check-raise.

One way to look at this is that it could have saved player B $150, I am sure the floor would allow him to take back the $50 and simply fold. You are usually behind when you get check-raised, especially in a show-down. However, it is hard to lay down a flush.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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I'm watching him and the dealer says check.


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if you were watching him, how did you not know he didnt check?

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How we were sitting I couldn't completley see his right hand which was shuffiling chips. Dealer clearly said check, so I took that as the dealer saw or heard something I didn't.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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I'm watching him and the dealer says check.


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if you were watching him, how did you not know he didnt check?

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How we were sitting I couldn't completley see his right hand which was shuffiling chips. Dealer clearly said check, so I took that as the dealer saw or heard something I didn't.

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Maybe he did see something. Its not all that unusual for a guy shuffling chips to make a tapping motion that can be construed by the dealer as a check. Since you didn't see maybe it was a player mistake and not a dealer mistake.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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Maybe he did see something. Its not all that unusual for a guy shuffling chips to make a tapping motion that can be construed by the dealer as a check. Since you didn't see maybe it was a player mistake and not a dealer mistake.

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Something else that can happen is the dealer sees a checking motion, announces the check and puts it out of their mind. Floor is called because the player says he didn't check and the dealer doesn't remember what checking motion he saw (he sees a lot of these over the course of a shift and has no real reason to remember THIS one), so the player that DID check gets to bet. As a player I don't know a good way to protect yourself against this angle shot when you don't have an unobstructed view, but if it ever happens a second time with a player I would make a point of finding out what he is doing.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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Maybe he did see something. Its not all that unusual for a guy shuffling chips to make a tapping motion that can be construed by the dealer as a check. Since you didn't see maybe it was a player mistake and not a dealer mistake.

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Something else that can happen is the dealer sees a checking motion, announces the check and puts it out of their mind. Floor is called because the player says he didn't check and the dealer doesn't remember what checking motion he saw (he sees a lot of these over the course of a shift and has no real reason to remember THIS one), so the player that DID check gets to bet. As a player I don't know a good way to protect yourself against this angle shot when you don't have an unobstructed view, but if it ever happens a second time with a player I would make a point of finding out what he is doing.

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One thing I would like to see is for poker rooms to require clear hand signals at the table, they way they do at a blackjack table. requiring a player to bring his hand out towards the center and tap the table would go along way to avoiding many misunderstandings (an angle shots).

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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Dealer messes up.

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This is absolutely the dealer's fault.

"Player A" sat silently, and was as motionless as a cigar store Indian. The dealer, for reasons only he knows, decided to announce "check". Probably, a player at another table BEHIND Player A checked, prompting the dealer's erroneous announcement. Or perhaps the dealer was watching a hockey game on tv, and reacted audibly to a solid bodycheck. "CHECK!!!"

I can't think of any other reason why a dealer would announce "check". But one thing is for sure, there is no way that Player A absent-mindedly moved his hand while his brain was focused on trying to decide how much to bet on the end.

Later, when the out-of-turn bet was allowed to stand, that was also entirely the dealer's fault. "Player B" has no obligation to protect his hand, or his action. He is blameless.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

Dude, shut up. The gimick account has already lost the humor that didn't exist when you created it. Yada yada yada dealers fault yada yada. Man, you really need a life to just sit there creating useless posts such as the first 3 you made.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

This guy's bringing up 4 day old posts to say "Blame The Dealer"? LMAO @ him. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

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Dealer messes up.

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This is absolutely the dealer's fault.

"Player A" sat silently, and was as motionless as a cigar store Indian. The dealer, for reasons only he knows, decided to announce "check". Probably, a player at another table BEHIND Player A checked, prompting the dealer's erroneous announcement. Or perhaps the dealer was watching a hockey game on tv, and reacted audibly to a solid bodycheck. "CHECK!!!"

I can't think of any other reason why a dealer would announce "check". But one thing is for sure, there is no way that Player A absent-mindedly moved his hand while his brain was focused on trying to decide how much to bet on the end.

Later, when the out-of-turn bet was allowed to stand, that was also entirely the dealer's fault. "Player B" has no obligation to protect his hand, or his action. He is blameless.

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Retard.

Moderator? Do you have to let this guy's posts stay up on the forum? These post kind of taint good advice 2+2 is famous for.

Re: Dealer says \"check\" but the player never checked
 

I'd be happy he gave you some of your money back. Whether he said check or not, it is sort of a mute point, you bet your hand, as you would be expected to do with a flush, and he took his option to raise. If anything, it was he who was unfairly punished by not being allowed to bet his flush, which he most certainly would do, but was lucky that you also had a hand which you felt worth of betting.
The fact that he was nice enough to give you some of your bet back confirms what you said about him being a nice, honest player.

One time a player pulled an angle shot on me, insisting that I shouldnt be allowed to bet because I had tapped the table. Yet, the action was on this player, and I was waiting for her to act. She checked, and then insisted that I shouldnt be allowed to bet, because I was lightly tapping the table while she was contemplating her decision. The dealer was clueless to what she was doing (she was obviously on the come and wanted a free card)and didnt allow me to bet. Luckily, I boated on the river, but I was still angry at both her tactics and the dealer's ignorance.

The other night at the casino I moved away from the button 2 seats across one player and the dealer insisted, incorrectly, that I had to post. I asked whether or not the casino had a "two live player rule", and she replied "yes, but if you move away from the button you still have to post." This is obviously contradictory. A casino that rules that you have to post if you move away from the button, no matter how many seats, obviously does not have a "two player" rule. Moving closer to the blind does not matter. I should have called the floor, but I posted not to cause any fuss, as the table was getting angered at me. I later asked the floor about the dealer's ruling and was informed the dealer was in fact wrong, and I was in fact correct. However, having not called the floor, there was nothing they were willing to do about it.

In conclusion, when a dealer makes a questionable call at the table, never argue, just call the floor immediately. Many dealers make enough mistakes and the only way the situation is going to be handled fairly is to get the floor. Do not feel embarassed or that you may be offending the dealer. It is your money at stake.

-J