Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

I doubled up villain on his 60BB stack like 20 minutes prior. My JJ v his 77 on a 79T flop. My image is as usual very aggressive/maniac style. Villain is weakish from what I can tell.

My instinct at the table was that this is an insta call. Tempo on villain's c/r all-in was INSTA.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($337.70)
Hero ($255.26)
UTG ($199.20)
MP ($384.25)
Button ($69.22)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $6</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $19</font>, SB calls $14.

Flop: ($42) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, SB calls $316.70 (All-In)

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

run away and live to fight another day.

feels like we're DOMINATED here by a larger pair.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

call and if he setted you again then so be it. he will find out where he is at with an over pair 9 times out of 10 on this board. probably ak aqsuit and knows the board didnt hit you with you pf raise. the insta all in is why id call. just doesnt seem like a hand that can be beating you. i dont know what hand he could have that would check here postflop that could actually beat you

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

you really dont think an over pair here bets out at the pot. on a fairly connected board i think villian bets here given heros maniac style will not let him draw for free unless villian is good enough to know that hero will bet. what is your post flop bet% hero? this would make a difference in my call or fold

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
you really dont think an over pair here bets out at the pot. on a fairly connected board i think villian bets here given heros maniac style will not let him draw for free unless villian is good enough to know that hero will bet. what is your post flop bet% hero? this would make a difference in my call or fold

[/ QUOTE ]

could just have wanted to c/r.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

i personally see a leading bet more often then not but your # of hands may be way higher then mine

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Ok I ran his likely hand range through Poker Stove.

Seems like a trivial call.

Board: 9d 7h 6c
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 47.4903 % 45.56% 01.93% { TcTh }
Hand 2: 52.5097 % 50.58% 01.93% { 66+, JTs, T7s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, JTo, T8o+, 97o+, 87o }

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

That is one optimistic hand range.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Kathleen can you help me improve it? Can you develop a reasonable hand range where the 1.6+ to 1 that I'm getting is insufficient to call?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

I fold this immediately.

I'm surprised everyone else seems on the fence. What do you think you're beating here?

Any overpair has you beat (JJ/QQ/KK/AA), and anyone mining a set has you beat. There's no draws otherwise...but.... wtf.... call $250 for tens??????

I'm not a great player, but this feels like an easy laydown to me. Find a better spot somewhere else.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

i fold, 6 outs isnt enough here imo.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

I'm only a 2 to 1 dog to all the sets, 88, and overpairs alone.

I'm getting 1.6+ to 1. He never has 98? 76? A8?

Really surprised at the tightness here. Like I said this feels like an insta call.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

your range seems silly to me, 96s, t8o, 87o etc.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Do you play in this game? Are you saying that your range is SQUARELY a set or an overpair? I would play a 98 in exactly the same way that villain played this hand, and it's not close.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

no i play 3/6, 5/10 10/20 short on a different site. i only play party for limit for which i suck at.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Hey davis... I like your instinct, and I think I would call too.

I may avoid making that decision on the flop, however, in the future.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Can you kindly give me your hand range for villain. Is it squarely 66, 77, 99, JJ, the other TT, QQ, KK, and AA?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

this is 1/2 right?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

i'm quite happy to help/hinder, do you have any stats on villian?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Not anymore than about 30 hands worth. From the few hands I saw him play I felt like he was bad/donkish.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

can you give what you have please?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

70 hands, vpip 43%, pfr 15%

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey davis... I like your instinct, and I think I would call too.

I may avoid making that decision on the flop, however, in the future.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the contrary, don't you almost invite a c/r all in in this situation? Short of flopping a set, it doesn't get much better for TT with regards to worse hands that will give you action/be overplayed in a sb/bb HU situation.

And I can think of worse spots to get it versus AA.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it squarely 66, 77, 99, JJ, the other TT, QQ, KK, and AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, but why do you include T8o given the action? 86s, etc? i think your range is wrong, i have played games similar, but not in a long time so i may be wrong!

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is it squarely 66, 77, 99, JJ, the other TT, QQ, KK, and AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, but why do you include T8o given the action? 86s, etc? i think your range is wrong, i have played games similar, but not in a long time so i may be wrong!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll gladly take the nuts out of his probable hand range if it makes you feel better. I'm wondering what 6 max NL games you play in where players won't come in for a raise with a 98 suited in a sb/bb battle and then call a reasonable re-raise? Do you only raise big pairs?

You really need to give me your hand range before we have anything to debate about. So far you are only giving me all the sets and overpairs.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Im calling unless the guy has given me reason to think hes different than most players at this limit

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

You have a manic image, so why wouldn't her c/r you allin with an over pair? As i have said before, i don't play 1/2 but they seem weak from what i remembet, T7s, 96s 76s, T8s 97o, 87o. Come on esp the off suit hands. Most hands that c/r allin have you beat.

he is betting 320 to win 100, do you think a weak tight does this? A weak passive? A Lag?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

I never discounted that he can have JJ-AA. It's in my hand range for villain.

Are you ever going to give me a hand range? Like ever? Am I just supposed to put him on pocket jokers and fold?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you ever going to give me a hand range? Like ever? Am I just supposed to put him on pocket jokers and fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand range given the action a PP higher than your, oh must be high, a hand you beat, must be low.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

dude wtf are you babbling about?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

post the results, this seems like a waste of time because you want me to draw you a map and i refuse to do it.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

also, count the number of poster who agree with your play!

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Insta all-in smells a whole lot like a frusturated AK missing the flop in a big pot.

AA-JJ are all going to reraise you before the flop, he is out of position and knows you are being agressive, his call is telling me he has to overcards.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

The other guy isn't going to give you a range. I'm not really experienced enough to give you a range either, but I just read one of fimbulwinter's old posts that talked about ranges. Battle of the blinds hands that raise-call for him are 99,88,77,KQs,JQs,JTs,KJs,QTs,9Ts,89s,78s,67s,56s,4 5s

You're way ahead of that range, but I don't think that whole range check-raises all in here. If you limit it to the hands that hit at all, you're still way ahead. If you limit it to the hands that hit a little better, (99-77, 98s, 87s, 76s, 54s), you're still up ~60:40. If you add all of the overpairs back in, you're behind 40:60. You're getting 186:308==1.66:1 which is a little better than that.

Huh. I woulda folded, but it's looking more like a call here. This is very surprising to me. Especially since I've been telling myself to stop going broke with overpairs. The gutshot adds quite a bit here. Can anyone more experienced give me an idea of how relevant fimbulwinter's hand ranges are for modelling villains?

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

Fim is a good player, most 1/2's aren't.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]

post the results, this seems like a waste of time because you want me to draw you a map and i refuse to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
also, count the number of poster who agree with your play!

[/ QUOTE ]


ROFL. Draw you a map? I'm asking you to get beyond -- "this sucks".. "this is good" empty zero NOTHING analysis.

And I'm done trying.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not anymore than about 30 hands worth. From the few hands I saw him play I felt like he was bad/donkish.

Post Extras:


[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm

[ QUOTE ]
70 hands, vpip 43%, pfr 15%

[/ QUOTE ]

was feeling the same thing!

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
The gutshot adds quite a bit here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.. yes it does. It's v interesting to do the same analysis giving me QQ or JJ.

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

You sucked out on his set earlier with your JJ. When a player does that to me Im more likely to fast play my strong flops against the same player.

On the same end, im likely to attempt to make more moves too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

This is a tough call for me that I probably wouldnt make w/o a better read

Re: Another SB/BB battle - play for it all? - $200 NL
 

I didn't suckout. His set held up when I had JJ.