What do you do? AA
 

This hand bothered me. Bad. Restless nights thinking about this hand.

Party 15-30, opponent is I_am_a_girl or some crap like that.
From what I've seen, her PF standards in EP are sooted cards as bad as 4-8 6-9, so on and so forth. She limped with KK and called down an A high board, and flopped a set and never raised a single street in another hand. I'd say VP$IP is in the 30-40's, and is very passive. She limped UTG with Jc8c, and checked trip jacks on the flop and didnt raise when bet into, and then led the turn/riv. That's about all the info I had up to this point.


Opponent limps UTG+1

Folds around to me in the CO, I raise with AA.

Both blinds fold, opponent calls.

Flop comes K 5 2 rb.

She bets into me, I raise.

Turn J no flush draw possible

She donks into me again, I think, then decide I have to raise, so I do. She calls.

River is an 8

She donks me again, I just call.


Anyone think that three donk bets in a row usually means a two pair or better hand here?


Anyone still raise this river?

What hand do you put her on given this action?


I was at a loss given my read and her action.


Any ideas.....????





Tex

Re: What do you do? AA
 

I'd play it the same. There is the option of smooth calling on the flop and raising the turn but this player's so stupid might as well get in the raises when you can. This player's horrible; who knows what's gonna be shown to you on the river. I'd probably just call on the river out of utter confusion. This player does not raise with their sets so they might just be betting 2pr for value and getting scared when you raise. Then again, chances are that your overpair could very well be the best hand and you are missing an opportunity to win an extra bet. But still, they have shown some aggression on each street and the hand reeks of only one pair of kings (which should have been folded on either the flop or more likely the turn). The river bet is what confuses me--your opponent's logic may be "I'm going to call anyhow so I'd might as well bet with my Kings".

In summary:
I bet you're gonna see some goofy 2pair on the river.
You very well could have the best hand.
Your opponent is super passive; they might not reraise w/o the nuts.

I'd call the river and get ready to chuckle in disgust at the junk I get shown that wins the pot.

Re: What do you do? AA
 

She is very passive? As in doesn't bet/raise without 2-pair or higher? In this case you should probably call down from the turn unless board pairs.

Flop is fine obviously.

Re: What do you do? AA
 

meh i really don't want her to fold, my standard line is call the flop, call the turn, raise the river, if bet into on the flop when i raised pre-flop in position.

Basically i think all this raising is too likely to fold hands i want playing along, I could be convinced otherwise though.

Re: What do you do? AA
 

The flop donk could be God knows what, and she's probably expecting to get raised regardless, so I don't think raising gives away the strength of your hand, so I'd raise the flop.

When she donks the turn you gotta start scratching your head. I think a raise on the turn might induce a fold from a weird pair. My plan would be to get 3 more BB into the pot, 1 on the turn and 2 on the river. If she 3bets the river, I puke a little and call, cuz I have AA and thats what I do w/ AA in the party 15...

lf

Re: What do you do? AA
 

Well I think you put to much money in the hand considering the player. When she keeps leading into you and she's so passive and she's a woman which right or wrong politically typically means only betting/raising with the goods. If she's not raising with 3 jacks why's she betting into you.
I'm 50/50 to raise the flop but after she leads again with her play style my bet is i'm way behind with a small chance of me being way ahead. Either way I don't want raises because I'm behind and if i am ahead I don't want her to fold. When something like this happens you are way ahead or way behind.

Re: What do you do? AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well I think you put to much money in the hand considering the player. When she keeps leading into you and she's so passive and she's a woman which right or wrong politically typically means only betting/raising with the goods. If she's not raising with 3 jacks why's she betting into you.
I'm 50/50 to raise the flop but after she leads again with her play style my bet is i'm way behind with a small chance of me being way ahead. Either way I don't want raises because I'm behind and if i am ahead I don't want her to fold. When something like this happens you are way ahead or way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

I don't see any reason to raise this player on the turn. Passives don't fold much when they are being the aggressor. If it's good enough to bet into you twice, it's going to showdown.

b

Re: What do you do? AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
She donks into me again, I think, then decide I have to raise,

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you 'have' to raise?

b

Re: What do you do? AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
The river bet is what confuses me--your opponent's logic may be "I'm going to call anyhow so I'd might as well bet with my Kings".


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But still, they have shown some aggression on each street and the hand reeks of only one pair of kings

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I've ever seen a passive player with this thought process after being raised on the prior 3 streets with only top pair.

[ QUOTE ]
You very well could have the best hand.
Your opponent is super passive; they might not reraise w/o the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

These 2 lines don't really go together. You have a 'super passive' that is leading every street after being raised on every street. The river is a crying call.

b

Re: What do you do? AA
 

against this type of opponent i think i would have played the flop the same, but when she bet out on the turn i would have called, intending to raise the river. if you get 3 bet on the river by a passive and you still only have 1 pair you can safely fold, but i think you still max out your value vs. a passive donk who just keeps betting because they hit top pair

Results
 

She showed K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

She flopped two pair, and, I should have gone into call down mode here on the turn/river I think. But I wonder if the 1 extra BB I lose is worth it when someone is donking into me with a PP or AK. I think that since she limped EP with KK, I was thinking it's possible she limped here with AK. I dont know what the right line is here, but, if I had to do it all over again, I'd probably just call the flop and raise the turn....Hands like this make me go on tilt, I really need to work on that part of my game. I can ruin an entire session because I cant let go of a certain hand. This doesnt happen that often, admittedly, but when it does it can get 30-40 BB's ugly. The same opponent beat my AK with K8 in a hand just after this and it sent me over the edge.


If anyone can offer some advice on how I could better control my tilt factor at the table I would be deeply endebted to them for any succesful advice.




Tex

Re: What do you do? AA
 

Advice was greatly appreciated, Daryn. I apologize for the comments I made earlier.



Thanks,

Tex

Re: Results
 

Tilting is about a lot of things.

Expectation/Entitlement: for our AA to hold up, to make our flush draws, to flop sets, etc. Stop expecting good things to happen and you won't be dissapointed.

Emotiotional attachment: to good starting cards, good flops, money. Stop caring about whether you win or lose and you won't tilt when either is happening.

just some ideas on how to start.

lf

Re: What do you do? AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The river bet is what confuses me--your opponent's logic may be "I'm going to call anyhow so I'd might as well bet with my Kings".


[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But still, they have shown some aggression on each street and the hand reeks of only one pair of kings

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I've ever seen a passive player with this thought process after being raised on the prior 3 streets with only top pair.

[ QUOTE ]
You very well could have the best hand.
Your opponent is super passive; they might not reraise w/o the nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

These 2 lines don't really go together. You have a 'super passive' that is leading every street after being raised on every street. The river is a crying call.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

My original post 'reeks' of the confusion I would be experiencing in the hand. Let me sum up the mess-- you might have the best hand if this guy's an idiot. Your raise on the turn should tip him off that a pair of Kings is no good; the flop raise may not. Super passive leads me to believe he has 2 pair given his betting. I'd call the river anyhow. I appologize for the mess I typed. I was thinking out loud or by typing or something.

Re: Results
 

[ QUOTE ]
If anyone can offer some advice on how I could better control my tilt factor at the table I would be deeply endebted to them for any succesful advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Recognize when you are starting to tilt and leave the game no matter how good it is. Come back later when you are thinking more clearly.

Longterm: Learn more about the game and where your profit comes from. You should welcome your AK being beat by K8.

30-40BBs isn't much at all. How will you do when it hits 100-200+bbs?

b

Re: What do you do? AA
 

[ QUOTE ]
My original post 'reeks' of the confusion I would be experiencing in the hand. Let me sum up the mess-- you might have the best hand if this guy's an idiot. Your raise on the turn should tip him off that a pair of Kings is no good; the flop raise may not. Super passive leads me to believe he has 2 pair given his betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Remember the player profile. That should help any confusion.

You raising the flop on a passives bet is telling them that you have at least a pair of Ks. (think of what they'd think of raising with in this spot) When they lead into you on the turn, they're saying they can beat top pair. Especially when you've been active on 2 streets raising behind them. There's really no reason to raise the turn. Passives generally don't make moves and thin bets or try to bump you off hands. They also don't bet unmade hands like draws. There's a reason they are 'passives'. When they are actively betting, they are seeing the showdown if forced into calling. In this case, the passive is still betting. Warning signs should be going on.

b