(55) QQ line
 

He has to have AA/KK here right? Does he make that preflop raise with AK/AQ then push on that flop? I felt bad about folding. Reassure me or help me fix a leak. Thanks.

NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:17620683 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Monday, November 21, 23:58:33 EDT 2005
Table Table 68900 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: netao ( $1010 )
Seat 2: vblifer ( $810 )
Seat 3: simonmaskil ( $850 )
Seat 4: PussiGobbler ( $1335 )
Seat 5: Scotty11065 ( $880 )
Seat 6: Matt_16 ( $1140 )
Seat 7: xavier76 ( $1000 )
Seat 8: XPitbull ( $985 )
Seat 9: HERO ( $890 )
Seat 10: deedee28111 ( $1100 )
Trny:17620683 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ Qh Qd ]
XPitbull folds.
HERO raises [90].
deedee28111 folds.
netao folds.
vblifer folds.
simonmaskil folds.
PussiGobbler folds.
Scotty11065 folds.
Matt_16 raises [240].
xavier76 folds.
HERO calls [160].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, 4h, 2c ]
Matt_16 is all-In [890]

Re: (55) QQ line
 

I think his range must be wider than AA/KK. It looks far more like AK to me.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

Maybe, maybe not. But I play the fifties also and I'll stick it in there almost every time. There are too many "AK losers" out there. Someone who will push with that hand no matter what.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

If you're thinking he has AA/KK here, that's an awful lot to call preflop for set value. What was your thinking when you called preflop, and how did it change based on his flop bet?

I fold this, btw.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

One line of play to consider is to minraise pre flop. The theory is that AA and KK will never fail to re-reraise pre flop. Raise your QQ up to 390. If they push all-in over the top of that you can be much more confident of AA/KK there. Lots of hands push post flop.

Costs and extra 150 but if they call pre-flop you can be very confident playing the hand from then on imo.

Pokerscott

Re: (55) QQ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think his range must be wider than AA/KK. It looks far more like AK to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Post flop looks more like AK than AA/KK.

I'd call this flop, but I wouldn't be in that situation.

If you're going to fold when undercards flop, then you should fold preflop.

Without reads I'd probably push after that reraise.

NP: Transport League - Filthy Old Liar

Re: (55) QQ line
 

I would never fold this without a serious read over several sngs. And why don't you push preflop? What flop action are you going to be content with? You'll get lots of lower pp and AK to call you.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

You fold this preflop then?

Easy call on the flop for me but an even easier push preflop, but that's me.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

I call here.

Weird way for him to get value out of AA/KK, although he definitely has that a bunch.

Good point about pf. Why call if you're folding this. That's probably the weakest line he could've taken on the flop by the way (in that any other line shows more strength, except for check fold).

Re: (55) QQ line
 

Do you always raise to 90t on level one? Do you think you play the hand differently if you raise 45t and his re-raise is 125t?

Re: (55) QQ line
 

I'd call this the majority of the time unless I had noted the raiser did this with AA/KK a lot in other games I had played with him.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
One line of play to consider is to minraise pre flop. The theory is that AA and KK will never fail to re-reraise pre flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised there has been no comments on this. I really don't like this line. Sure, you can really define your hand the times that someone is holding AA/KK behind you, but does that make up for the much more likely case where you end up playing QQ in a family pot and lose to a very large range of hands?

I personally never use the min-raise unless I'm heads-up (maybe three-handed) and my opponents have shown that they'll fold to it most times. I just don't like giving the BB odds to call with any two, which makes the post-flop play much more difficult.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One line of play to consider is to minraise pre flop. The theory is that AA and KK will never fail to re-reraise pre flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm surprised there has been no comments on this. I really don't like this line. Sure, you can really define your hand the times that someone is holding AA/KK behind you, but does that make up for the much more likely case where you end up playing QQ in a family pot and lose to a very large range of hands?

I personally never use the min-raise unless I'm heads-up (maybe three-handed) and my opponents have shown that they'll fold to it most times. I just don't like giving the BB odds to call with any two, which makes the post-flop play much more difficult.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to be clear, the min raise I was talking about was a min RE raise. The betting would go:

Hero raises 90
villain raises 240
Hero min RE raises 390

I mentioned the 390 in the post but didn't spell it out this clearly. Anyway, no way does this sequence end up with a family pot.

You get to have the hand defined and it costs a relatively cheap 150.

I agree btw almost never right with AK to be first in with a min raise with 8 to act.

Pokerscott

Re: (55) QQ line
 

Another thing about the min-reraise is many people will push AK or JJ here, putting you on a range that they conveniently beat/flip with. The only way I like this move is if you're trying to instigate a preflop allin, because that's what's going to happen a lot of the time. You also lose out on the chance to flop a set or a straight and stack better hands. So, if you make this raise for information, sometimes you will fold the best hand and sometimes you will give up the chance to stack a better hand. Moreover, if someone does have AA, they might very well call your minreraise and trap you on undercard flops.

I think calling the reraise, or folding with a very specific read, is far better than minreraising unless you are trying to instigate an overaggressive opponent into pushing a worse hand preflop. The minreraise here is FPS in my opinion.

Re: (55) QQ line
 

Yeah , I agree. Miniraise is bad IMO cus AK-AJ TT+ is likley to be pushing, maybe even 99. It does not get u any information most of the time. I dont like pushing cus this looks like AK and I dont want a race yet. I like the call preflop cus im not folding QQ that easily unless i have an incredible read. And if there is no A or K on the flop, im guessing im golden. I am not calling here if i dont intend to commit on a non A or K flop. If i get caught up against AA, KK, im heading straight to the lobby and startin up another one. Hornacek, why are u folding this? I havent played the 55s serously in a month, but last i checked, there were still donks. All in all this looks like a call.

-EV