my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

I've altered someone's full-table hand to ask the following question.

Hero raises utg with pocket 10s, and gets 3-bet by MP, who appears to be a TAG. Hero calls, everone else folds.

Flop is 934 rainbow. Hero checks, MP bets, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, Hero calls.

Turn is a J. Would this be a good place to donk?

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

I don't see what it accomplishes. I doubt you are folding a better hand. If he is agressive, why not let him do the betting, and hope he is bluffing.

Are you folding if he raises your bet?

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

Well, I think that if villain raises, it's an easy fold. So I suppose the point would be that this is cheaper than just c/c both the turn and river.

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

I think this is a particularly bad place to donk. The donk would represent both (a) that you held either exactly JJ or J9, AND (b) you didn't expect MP to bet so that you could c/r. Neither is particularly plausible (maybe JJ is). MP is representing AA-JJ and won't fold to your donk. AK is also possible, but less likely both by distribution and given the action so far.

If he checks behind on the turn then donk any non-A/K river.

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I think that if villain raises, it's an easy fold. So I suppose the point would be that this is cheaper than just c/c both the turn and river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, are you betting the river if he calls the turn? If not, are you calling his bet?

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he checks behind on the turn then donk any non-A/K river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain checks behind turn, your river bet is no more donk. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

Yeah, I guess this makes sense.

But I really, really want to learn now to donk. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I guess this makes sense.

But I really, really want to learn now to donk. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I basically never donk. I mean there is a reason it's called a donk bet. It's because crappy players do it and there is usually a better line to take than the donk.

Krishan

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

Here's a good one I think:

You call button's steal attempt out of BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You check-call (?)

Turn is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Now you donk

Or am I way off?

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a good one I think:

You call button's steal attempt out of BB with K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Flop is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

You check-call (?)

Turn is A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Now you donk

Or am I way off?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's reasonable, but I also think you're kind of cheating by using a blind/steal situation, where donk bets don't seem so, well, "donkish." [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

if you plan to fold to a turn raise then why bet? you aren't worried about a free card and if you check call you get to see the river for the same price as bet fold why turn down seeing a card that could make your flush, pair your K ?

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I guess this makes sense.

But I really, really want to learn now to donk. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I basically never donk. I mean there is a reason it's called a donk bet. It's because crappy players do it and there is usually a better line to take than the donk.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I think stop-and-goes are good at times, but I don't really like this term "donk bet", as it seems like it could mean several different things in different circumstances.

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I guess this makes sense.

But I really, really want to learn now to donk. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I basically never donk. I mean there is a reason it's called a donk bet. It's because crappy players do it and there is usually a better line to take than the donk.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

I think stop-and-goes are good at times, but I don't really like this term "donk bet", as it seems like it could mean several different things in different circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I consider a donk bet any lead after a check call. (or preflop call)

Krishan

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think stop-and-goes are good at times, but I don't really like this term "donk bet", as it seems like it could mean several different things in different circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

Stop and go is definitely different in my mind, and much easier to justify.

I'm going to spend the next day donking all over the place, until I find a sensible situation. Everyone else is doing it, so I think I should be allowed to also.

Re: my continuing effort to find good places to donk
 

Picky terminology point: a "stop-and-go" is really something different -- or at least it used to be when the term first started getting used around here about 2 years ago. A stop and go is a line taken to maximize fold equity based on stack sizes in a NL game. There's a good Fossilman post from way back that essentially defines it as a situation (a) where a raise or re-raise is just called preflop because moving all-in will have virtually no chance of getting the opponent to fold because of pot odds; (b) with the plan to move all in on the flop regardless of the flop, with the goal of maximizing fold equity.

Donk betting looks similar, but has importantly different principles, purposes, and applications.