Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

In the ESPN show 'The Best hand I ever played' (a pretty decent show btw) Annie Duke talks about her TT lay-down vs. Raymer's KK in last year's TOC.

She said that ESPN had just aired the episode in which some significant Raymer coverage was shown and that she spotted a 'pretty obvious tell' on Raymer when he had a strong hand and wanted to induce a call.

Duke said she didn't want to say what the tell was.


Any ideas??

I mean..she spotted it from the freaking TV coverage...so surely the powerful minds at 2+2 should be able to figure out what she thinks is Raymer's 'obvious' tell.


(also - I'm not so sure on Lederer's slow-playing his 33 against Chan. Even if he knows he's best at that point he's still giving him a free-card. That discussion for another time perhaps).

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

That segment should be retitled--the best hand I played that was shown on TV.

Also you can't rely that much on the TV coverage since it's so highly edited these days.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

this seems really familiar.
i think the same thing was posted once and someone responded:
pros claim to have tells on their opponents to get under their skin.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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That segment should be retitled--the best hand I played that was shown on TV.

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not the doyle hand.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

Maybe it was the magical "Oh darn Raymer putting in the third raise puts my TT in really bad shape" tell.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

After rewatching it 2 things,

The less noticable:
Raymer's chest visibly heaves as Anne deliberates and he tries to remain stone faced.

The other is he insta-all in'd after looking at 1 then 2 cards with anne betting excatly what Daniel had left -130K I think.

I'd like to think it was the heavy breathing.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

I'm trying to cut out the clip but having problems, any software suggestions? I've tried Tmpeg and Adobe Premiere.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

I hope fossilman posts.

Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the best hand Annie Duke ever played involved folding tens to an all-in reraise. Congrats lady... congrats.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

I'm gonna say the speed that raymer moved in. There was no hollwood, no concern. BAM i'm all in! Usually a sign of a big pair like KK or QQ. As in some ways the person thinks there is enough out there to shut everybody out and take this nice little pot with 0 perecnt chance of losing and adding to his stack. Don't get me wrong he doesnt mind a call but at the same time there is enough out there to take it right now. Remmebr even if one of them has just an A they will win 30 percent of the time. Now if he had AA thats a different story. Also i think greg goes by the theory if he moved in faster they will think he's weak. As most people move in fast with weak hands and hollywood BIG hands. So he reverses it.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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As in some ways the person thinks there is enough out there to shut everybody out and take this nice little pot with 0 perecnt chance of losing and adding to his stack. Don't get me wrong he doesnt mind a call but at the same time there is enough out there to take it right now. Remmebr even if one of them has just an A they will win 30 percent of the time.

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With only one place getting paid, Greg would LOVE to get in 70/30. If he thought he could milk a call from an ace, I guarantee he'd do his best to induce it.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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I hope fossilman posts.

Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the best hand Annie Duke ever played involved folding tens to an all-in reraise. Congrats lady... congrats.

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Hey it could be worse. Gavin Griffin's 'best hand ever' was one where he basically just won the blinds

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I hope fossilman posts.

Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the best hand Annie Duke ever played involved folding tens to an all-in reraise. Congrats lady... congrats.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey it could be worse. Gavin Griffin's 'best hand ever' was one where he basically just won the blinds

[/ QUOTE ]

Well he sucks anyways so this isn't suprising.





















I KEED I KEED

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

I'd swear we've had this exact post before, and I know we've had this thread.

Raymer talked about this in a chat or something, and said that he didn't know what she was talking about, but that often people like Duke will say something like that just to get into people's heads.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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Maybe it was the magical "Oh darn Raymer putting in the third raise puts my TT in really bad shape" tell.

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I like this explanation.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

[ QUOTE ]
this seems really familiar.
i think the same thing was posted once and someone responded:
pros claim to have tells on their opponents to get under their skin.


[/ QUOTE ]
already beat you to it

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

I'm gonna have say a BIG part of this is BS. Ok, maybe Raymer has some big tell because Matusow claimed to have spotted it too at the WSOP. Though, Matusow seems to have known when Raymer was weak, which was the explanation of how he was able to bluff him off the hand where he questioned the size of Greg's balls, and Annie knows when he is strong? Does Greg have two tells then? Man, how did he win the WSOP? How is he a winning player being such a huge tellbox???

Oh but wait, then I remembered Annie Duke stated on this forum a little over a year ago that she had to think for 10 minutes about laying down the TT and how she apologized a number of times to the people at the table for taking so long but it was a VERY difficult decision. But hey, he's got a REALLY obvious tell when he's strong...

just my two cents... though maybe if we're lucky Greg will chirp in and let us ALL know what his tell is [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

He quickly puts his sunglasses back on (so nobody can read his eyes).

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

Sometimes "the best hand ever played" doesn't mean you had to make this incredible bluff or incredible call or you milked someone for all their worth holding the nuts.


In hindsight, this is the hand that gave Annie the win in the TOC. This could have easily been her go broke hand and we would not have seen her dominate Phil. I'm sure at the time she did not think of it in such a way, but in hindsight finding out how badly she was beat she realizes that this was the hand that made it for her - not being up against Phil constantly with a dominating hand like KJ to K9 etc...it was the Tens. A hand that players love to play but a hand that gets a lot of people in trouble.

We all watch TV and see how easy a laydown it was...but its also quite possible that Raymer could have been making that move with just AKs or 88, 99.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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Sometimes "the best hand ever played" doesn't mean you had to make this incredible bluff or incredible call or you milked someone for all their worth holding the nuts.


In hindsight, this is the hand that gave Annie the win in the TOC. This could have easily been her go broke hand and we would not have seen her dominate Phil. I'm sure at the time she did not think of it in such a way, but in hindsight finding out how badly she was beat she realizes that this was the hand that made it for her - not being up against Phil constantly with a dominating hand like KJ to K9 etc...it was the Tens. A hand that players love to play but a hand that gets a lot of people in trouble.

We all watch TV and see how easy a laydown it was...but its also quite possible that Raymer could have been making that move with just AKs or 88, 99.

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I agree. In Annie's case, it's a fine hand to feature. Annie was pretty short stacked when this happened but still had the discipline to lay down the tens after committing a good amount of chips. When you consider it was a winner-take-all event, it makes the fold even more difficult. I think you absolutely have to have a pretty strong read to fold.

It is the pivotal hand in what was by far the biggest win of her life (or most peoples' lives for that matter, $2 million). I think that qualifies.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the best hand Annie Duke ever played involved folding tens to an all-in reraise. Congrats lady... congrats.

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The reason she said it was the best hand she ever played was because the laydown was only correct if she could positively eliminate AK from Raymer's possible holdings - if Raymer could possibly have AK in that spot, she would have been getting the right price and would have to call. It's not as if she agonized forever over a deep stack all-in raise from UTG.

She mentioned this in the "best hand I ever played" book, but I don't know if they showed that explanation on TV or not. If you want to see "pathetic", check out some of the other hands in that book. A good percentage of them are "I put all my money in as a huge dog down to one out, and then it came on the river and I won the pot! Best. Hand. EVAR.". IIRC Scott Fischman's was one where he admittedly made the wrong decision but Scotty Nguyen would have busted him out of the tournament with a miracle flop, therefore it was the best hand he ever played, etc.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

So home game tourney, I bet, a tight guy reraises me all in, and I fold my TT face up and since he's a friend he shows me the KK.

So when is the ESPN camera crew getting here?

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

On a side note, does anybody know why Freddy Deeb thought the best hand he ever played was when he misread Phil Ivey and sucked out on his set of sevens?

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

yes, cause we all know the only way to win a tourney as prescribed by Harrington on Holdem and TPFAP is to call with the 2nd best hand and suck out...

If the hand would have been the difference between 2 mil. and nothing, it'd have been my fav. hand too.

rookie.

RB

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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Also, I think it's kind of pathetic that the best hand Annie Duke ever played involved folding tens to an all-in reraise. Congrats lady... congrats.

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Considering the stakes involved and the player she was against, I don't think it's pathetic at all. She would of been knocked out if she called, instead she made a good laydown and kept herself in position to win.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

>>Duke said she didn't want to say what the tell was.<<

So Annie Duke can read fossilman like a book.

Say, where did annie finish in the last couple of WSOP's?

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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She would of been knocked out if she called

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you heard it here first.. 10's ALWAYS lose to Kings

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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you heard it here first.. 10's ALWAYS lose to Kings


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ok, 80% she would have been knocked out smartass

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

I believe the original point is that folding TT preflop to a huge all in reraise is no big thing in the upper teir of the poker world.

Sure to your average TV watching, Party Poker MTT donk it seems like "OMFGZ!!!! She folded TT??? WOW! SHE'S AWESOME!!!"


but like I said, to a pro this laydown ain't crap. Remember one of the WSOP Circuit event final tables earlier this year when that guy from N.J. laid down QQ preflop (correctly I might add).

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

[ QUOTE ]
I believe the original point is that folding TT preflop to a huge all in reraise is no big thing in the upper teir of the poker world.

Sure to your average TV watching, Party Poker MTT donk it seems like "OMFGZ!!!! She folded TT??? WOW! SHE'S AWESOME!!!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, the reason she was proud of that laydown was because of the price she was being laid by the pot - if Raymer's range is {AA-JJ, AK} she's getting the right price to call for all of her chips; if his range is {AA-JJ}, she is not.

Knowing when your tens are beat is pretty standard in the "upper tier of the poker world". Ignoring the size of the pot, however, is not.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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I believe the original point is that folding TT preflop to a huge all in reraise is no big thing in the upper teir of the poker world.


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The point was that this was the greatest hand she ever played. Any semi decent player can make that laydown, true, but by not playing she gained the confidence needed to win the TOC against a table full of sharks. That QQ laydown was impressive though, I must say.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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Hey it could be worse. Gavin Griffin's 'best hand ever' was one where he basically just won the blinds

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Not to steal the thread but Gavin made a really fast call when I went all in last week at the main event at Foxwoods, I was surprised he did.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

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Maybe it was the magical "Oh darn Raymer putting in the third raise puts my TT in really bad shape" tell.

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LOL!

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

That guy who laid down the QQ was Nick Frangos FYI.

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

freddy deebs best hand was sucking out when phil ivey flopped a set to his kk and the money went in on the flop

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

He had a monster and was playing heads up against a female. My guess was either that baby face of his started to blush real hard or maybe he began to squirm uncomfortably in the chair as he started to get his first ever poker-boner.

-J

Re: Raymer tell spotted by Annie duke
 

Annie said she first spotted the tell in the televised episode of him vs. Matusow when he had a strong hand
Then he exhibited the same tell against her.


I'm hoping your take on this boner thing is incorrect....otherwise, the image of Raymer getting the same kind of boner vs. Matusow is not a pleasant one at all.