T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

Fantastic 5/5 game at foxwoods, i'm stuck, bobbo is chatting it up with 2 huge fish and is actually genuinely interested in the crap they have to say. I could care less and I'm getting annoyed that the dealer is having an in depth conversation with them rather than dealing me through my cold deck of cards. Uber calling station fish who raises once an hour makes it 25 UTG with 2k behind. I call with T8s, and super crazy retarded nutjob lag ($4k? too much in bills) who has gotten the better of me all night makes it 50, fish calls 25 more, I call 25 more. I think I have about 4k at this point.

Flop comes A84 giving me pair plus flush draw. fish bets 100, I make it 300, Lag minraises to 600, fish calls 300, I..........call 300?

Playing pair plus flush draw is a lot harder with 500+bb stacks than I thought. I would estimate my folding equity in the low single digits, like 1% with both of these guys. Nutjob lag loved to minraise, that was his standard raise on pretty much any bet. I'm curious if there are reasons to wait for the turn before getting it in or not given the stack sizes, neither one of them has a set.


part 2: I got lynched for this by bobbo, chaostricize, and duck, rightfully so I suppose, I just hate the idea of calling off my stack on the turn when I know I'm behind and neither one is folding. I call 300 more on the flop. Turn is a low brick. Fish checks, I check, lag bets 1200, Fish calls 1200, and I fold? Getting about 3.5:1 on a 2:1 shot? Yes I really am that dumb, I lament to bobbo that calling off my stack with a draw on the turn seems like a losing play. He just looks at me and says, getting 3.5:1? I stay quiet as I realize how bad I am. Have at it.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

its ok to play short stacked.

I mean I know we like to maximize our advantages but playing a format thats close to our normal game also has certain plusses.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

i realize that, and as bad as my deep stacked game is, the rest of the tables deep stacked game is worse (though that might be difficult to prove given these posts), that not covering them would be a crime.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

How do you feel if one of your opponents holds a higher flush draw? Do you see either of them having one?

Presumably the flush hit the river, a big bet was made and called, and nobody had the flush. Your decision cost you thousands, but the point remains: clean outs are different from dirty outs, and you should not engage in fanstasy when calculating your implied odds.

Do you still like your flop play?

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

wait a sec you described them as uber calling? some guy bet a measly 100 for you to see your draw cheaply and you wanted to charge yourself more? when you know they aren't folding? Sounds like how I played today, trying to bluff someone with my 7 high

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

dude, tight guy can have the NFD, id assume. even a tight raiser might make that small open w/ KQs, and the entire table knows youre flushing 100% when you overcall the turn, so i think your play is fine.
also, id just call the 100 on the flop unless this guy is folding AQ at some point.
obviously, going allin on the flop is ok, but when the KhQh overcalls the AI, you want to die.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

I don't like overcall on a weak flush draw on turn...I like this fold....you won't get paid off that great with flush card in a multiway pot since most people aren't that dumb.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like overcall on a weak flush draw on turn...I like this fold....you won't get paid off that great with flush card in a multiway pot since most people aren't that dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

these were the rare exceptions

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

and what was the river???

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

I would call the turn since you are closing the action, but then again i shoved into quads today with 8 high, so i shouldnt give poker advice [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

Or how about when someone shoves into your quad 5s?

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

flop raise seems bad. fish riased got re raised then led into the field on an A high flop. i just fold here as i dont give myself more than 9 clean outs and im squeezed.if i closed the action i'd call...but what does this have to do with on -line play?

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

is 25 a small open in a 5-5 game?

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

[ QUOTE ]
is 25 a small open in a 5-5 game?

[/ QUOTE ]
they are playing 5K stacks.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

I think this whole hand was standard. If you would be happy to get your stack in on a T river, then your turn fold was awful. I cant imagine many (if any) people, who i'd happily get in 500bb's w/ only having t8 on an AT8 x x board

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

If you bet 300 on the turn, will nutjob lag minraise you again?

Price yourself in.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet 300 on the turn, will nutjob lag minraise you again?

Price yourself in.

[/ QUOTE ]

thtd b sick.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

Why do we want to die? We are ahead of KhQh (albeit a small bit ahead).

Its if KhQh AND Ax calls that we want to die.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

how is 14 outs 2:1 after the turn?

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

Hi AZK,
Play a lot lower than you and enjoy reading your posts, so JMO...

I think the fold is good as you don't have the implied odds for the flush bla bla.

My main thought is, just by the wording of your post, you seem to have a tone of anger in your voice, and in word choice, towards the fish but also at the game in general. I imagine you already know this or perhaps it doesnt effect you, but playing in an angry or any emotionally swayed way can cause a lot of unclear thinking and mistakes, which a clear mind could avoid.

I know I probably sound like a peace peddling zen hippie, but in all seriousness, that semi-subconcious angry urge to stick it to idiotic fish has been a sizeable hole of mine, and think players that play with more emotional detachment have a big edge.

Maybe it was just a shtty session, just a thought.

Re: T8s deep...online poker has retarded my live game.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hi AZK,
Play a lot lower than you and enjoy reading your posts, so JMO...

I think the fold is good as you don't have the implied odds for the flush bla bla.

My main thought is, just by the wording of your post, you seem to have a tone of anger in your voice, and in word choice, towards the fish but also at the game in general. I imagine you already know this or perhaps it doesnt effect you, but playing in an angry or any emotionally swayed way can cause a lot of unclear thinking and mistakes, which a clear mind could avoid.

I know I probably sound like a peace peddling zen hippie, but in all seriousness, that semi-subconcious angry urge to stick it to idiotic fish has been a sizeable hole of mine, and think players that play with more emotional detachment have a big edge.

Maybe it was just a shtty session, just a thought.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good post.