nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

hi. ive recently started playing poker again and have been playing a little nl400. i'm less interested in whether or not you make this play than the reasons why a certain action is or isnt +EV.

my note on this guy says idiot, though thats all i remember about him. this could mean anything from loose passive to loose aggressive.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($888.65)
Hero ($691.60)
SB ($132)
BB ($440.90)
UTG ($1227.96)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls $4, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $18</font>, Hero calls $18, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $14.

Flop: ($60) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $40</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $175</font>, MP folds, Hero calls $135.

Turn: ($410) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks normal speed , Hero pauses and checks.

River: ($410) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG quickly checks, Hero bets $498.60 (All-In)

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

you can bluff for much less in theses spots

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

i dont disagree with you necessarily, but i think the decision on whether or not to bluff the river is a more interesting discussion

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

Your play is really confusing me.

You called a large raise on the flop presumably because u thought u had the best hand.

Then you feel the need to bluff the river agasint someone who looks like they are scared of the flush.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

I guess you're hoping he lays down a set? In this situation, it's probably unnecessary, I think you're good here. Anyways, I guess you want to know if this bluff on a 4 flush is +EV and I believe it is. He definitely folds a good majority of the time here.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your play is really confusing me.

You called a large raise on the flop presumably because u thought u had the best hand.

Then you feel the need to bluff the river agasint someone who looks like they are scared of the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about the 1 pair hands with a club that will fold to the river bet? or the 2 pair hands without a club? or the turned flush hands without the ace or queen? you dont think they are likely enough to make the bluff +EV?

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

well, the way that it was played, unless hes a maniac and disgustingly aggro with flush draws..

i'd agree that he has a set or two pair or something that was crushing you on the flop.

with that said with 4 flush on board, theres slim chance he even has a club at all. I'd bluff at this a majority of hte time, but a value bet would work instead of sticking 500 in the middle bc someone with a good flush draw.... IMO would not push their stack in the middle...

think of how the hand your representing would play it.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

Huh?? I'm def. pushing with the nut flush in this spot

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your play is really confusing me.

You called a large raise on the flop presumably because u thought u had the best hand.

Then you feel the need to bluff the river agasint someone who looks like they are scared of the flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about the 1 pair hands with a club that will fold to the river bet? or the 2 pair hands without a club? or the turned flush hands without the ace or queen? you dont think they are likely enough to make the bluff +EV?

[/ QUOTE ]

What one pair would he have witha club that isin't a high club? Which two pair does he have? Does he often raise K8pf? 86?

and the other point of my origional reply was why are you calling on the flop if he has &gt; 1 pair?

The mid turned flush is possible, but I think most people would bet it.

Based on the action IMO the only hand he has that beats you that might fold to you is a set. Does he raise 66 or 88 pf? and can he lay down a set?

If you have reads that make my logic wrong then more power to ya.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

My experience in this game is that if he raises in the range of $80-120 on the flop, you're probably crushed. When people raise huge, they are generally full of [censored]. The fact that he "gave up" after getting called further lends itself to this theory, and the notes on him as an idiot certainly don't hurt either. But unfortunately, if he had nothing on the flop it makes it more likely that he somehow holds a club. Your pair should be good a little less than half of the time. Your play of the hand has been perfectly consistent with AA/AK so it is very believable for you to represent the Ac on the end. But the information we're missing is how likely it is for him to call on the end with a weak flush (or to actually hold the Ac). The same people that make $175 bluff-raises on the flop are the type that are most likely to make heroic calls with sketchy hands.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

Take better notes.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

really.. who will call though??

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
Take better notes.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

good replies so far, keep them coming. i will weigh in a bit later with my thoughts / some math

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

reraise pf

pot the flop

i like the river

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
you can bluff for much less in theses spots

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt there is any hand that calls say $300, but folds to $500.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you can bluff for much less in theses spots

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt there is any hand that calls say $300, but folds to $500.

[/ QUOTE ]

yep, agree entirely. im a bit rusty, and i was focused entirely on whether or not i should bluff and didnt pay much attention to bet size.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

You definitely should bet that river 100% of the time.

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

Can someone answer why it is a good idea to call on the flop and then bluff river.

Given the action What hands do you put villian on that make hero's call (as opposed to fold or raise) on the flop and then bluff on the river the best moves?

Re: nl400 1 pair river bluff
 

Because on the flop there weren't four clubs.