AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

You pick up AA in MP and raise. BB calls. No read on BB.

Flop comes 55Tr. BB leads into you with a bet (1/2 pot to pot).

Previously in this spot I would always raise in this spot. The more I think about it, raising here seems dead wrong. This is clearly a WA/WB situation. We know that raising in WA/WB situations is wrong.

However, I see tons of posts here with situations like the one detailed above, where most people advocate raising. Is my reasoning that this is a WA/WB situation flawed in some way, and thus is raising in this spot actually the correct play?

Thoughts?

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

A call is good in this spot.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
A call is good in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're WA/WB or for deception reasons?

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

I'm gonna slightly hijack my own thread here.

Same situation as above, except this time flop comes 444. This is another WA/WB situation, except this time you're way more likely to be WA than WB. How do you play this kind of situation?

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

I agree that calling is best. Why raise here?

Unless I am against a maniac/calling station/huge donk I see no reason to raise this flop. Villan will fold all hands we beat and call with any hand that beats us (WA/WB).

Pot control is vital for 1 pair hands as well. This hand has showdown value.

Against a player who will go to the felt with a lone 10 here, I don't mind raising. But against a normal player, I think call is my standard.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A call is good in this spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because you're WA/WB or for deception reasons?

[/ QUOTE ]

Both, and pot control. Though I guess that's sorta included in WA/WB.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

If the flop comes 444 I'm value betting on all streets.

If the flop comes 55T I'm value betting all streets

If the flop comes 2KK then I'm going to be a lot more carefull

All this assumes normal preflop action with AA although its a little general.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

Ok so call on the flop, I see that as being fine. But how to aproach the turn and river when the it is potted, overbetted or even pushes on any of the remaining streets? What now?


Ed S.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

Calling all the way down is the way to go here if the opportunity presents itself. If villian decides to put in a crazy bet...I honestly can't see folding here, we're only beat by a 5 or TT...

I'd be more interested to know what to do if villian checks the turn. Do we check to induce a bluff on the river or do we bet?

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

You pick up AA in MP and raise. BB calls. No read on BB.

Flop comes 55Tr. BB leads into you with a bet (1/2 pot to pot). You call.

Turn is a 2, making the board 55T2r. What do you do if

a) Villain bets again.
b) Villain checks.

My line would be a) call, and b) check behind.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You pick up AA in MP and raise. BB calls. No read on BB.

Flop comes 55Tr. BB leads into you with a bet (1/2 pot to pot). You call.

Turn is a 2, making the board 55T2r. What do you do if

a) Villain bets again.
b) Villain checks.

My line would be a) call, and b) check behind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel that this depends on your read of your opponent, if you've got any. If he'll make a crying call with a T (and lots of people I play with will,) I'm betting.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

So, I guess I must be nuts because I think my move here would be to raise in hand 1. I'd be more than happy to take down this pot, or to see if I'm beat and move on. Preflop, if the action is Hero raises, villain calls, I'd expect to see broadway cards, or decent pocket pairs in my villain's hand. Basically, we're WB in only two situations: Villain was fortunate enough to pick up 1010, and flopped a monster, or, villain's playing hands like A-rag into raised pots. I think I give less credit to the latter situation, and would fathom the former.

Nobody can see a villain calling a flop raise with overpairs? Or dare I say a flush draw? Or even A10?

If I raise and villain pushes, well I know exactly where I am, and I fold.

Comments? Critiques?

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
We know that raising in WA/WB situations is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

not if the probability of you being WA is higher and he will pay off with his weaker holdings.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We know that raising in WA/WB situations is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

not if the probability of you being WA is higher and he will pay off with his weaker holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

This ties in with my 2nd hand example, with AA on a 444 flop. Basically here we just value bet all the way, since the probability of us being WA is much larger than us being WB.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

i think in harrington's book he describes XXX the best flop for aces and then after that its XXY..
imo it would be a mistake to assume he has the 5 unless you see that he has a tendency to overvalue suited connectors or quads haha.
you could raise or check depending on the aggro of the specific opponent. If hes the type thats willing to stab again and tendency to bluff, just check it to him and let him hang himself.

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
We know that raising in WA/WB situations is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

not if the probability of you being WA is higher and he will pay off with his weaker holdings.

[/ QUOTE ]

So is this the reason that people advocate raising here, instead of just calling?

Re: AA on xyy board (WA/WB?)
 

I played a hand in a similar situation where I held AA and the board came TTJ in a NL25 game.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO ($50.20)
Button ($30.05)
SB ($9.50)
BB ($14.09)
UTG :#A500AF(Villain)/ ($40.70)
UTG+1 ($30.80)
MP1 ($33.90)
Hero ($33.35)
MP3 ($28.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, UTG :#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villain bets $0.75</font>, Hero calls $0.75.

Turn: ($3.85) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villain bets $2</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, Villain calls $2.

River: ($11.85) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villain bets $10</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $21.85

I didn't have a good read on the villain as I had just recently joined the table. I was sure I had the better hand, however given the river bet, that set off some alarms. Looking back at this hand I think I should have raised a bit more on the turn to figure out where I was at, perhaps to around $5-$6. But if he smoothed call, and bet $10 on the river, what then?

After playing a few more orbits at the table I'm still not sure whether I had the best hand or not. Villain seems to play the flop aggressively, half of the time he has a made hand, and the other half it is a bluff attempt. Given the information I had during this hand, did I make the right moves?