Another tough situation
 

Villain is 40/11 and seems in line postflop.

Party Poker 1.00/2.00 Hold'em <font color="#0000FF">(6 handed)</font> link

Preflop: Hero is CO with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, MP checks, Hero

Re: Another tough situation
 

I'm usually going into check-call/check-call/bet mode with these (depending on the other players) and, of course, adjusting if my hand improves.

Re: Another tough situation
 

I'd considering donking into Button, and hope he raises, knocking out UTG and MP. Then check-call down.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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I'd considering donking into Button, and hope he raises, knocking out UTG and MP. Then check-call down.

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I'll do Aaron W. the honor of linking his thread about betting into preflop raisers. I don't think it's a good idea in this case since, when he raises, you're often in pretty bad shape.

Re: Another tough situation
 

I bet this flop. What hands does he 3-bet preflop with? AA, KK, QQ, AK, maybe JJ? In any case, I bet here and then if raised call, check call down. Unless of course you know he is a good player who is sure to have you outkicked here, then go ahead and throw it away.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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I'm usually going into check-call/check-call/bet mode with these (depending on the other players) and, of course, adjusting if my hand improves.

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This is what I was thinking of but I just feel like I'm giving up on protection of my hand. I'm also not sure if he bets KK,QQ, or TT here everytime which kinda sucks.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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I'm usually going into check-call/check-call/bet mode with these (depending on the other players) and, of course, adjusting if my hand improves.

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This is what I was thinking of but I just feel like I'm giving up on protection of my hand. I'm also not sure if he bets KK,QQ, or TT here everytime which kinda sucks.

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Yeah, it sucks but you can't always protect your hand. Your relative position here would've been nice if the flop was ATT but on this one there's just not much you can do.

And if he checks through it's not the end of the world. Anyone with any kind of draw would've been right to call if you had just bet (and he called) and now, on the turn, they won't be.

Re: Another tough situation
 

Yeah, I think I like your line here. Thanks for the thoughts.

Re: Another tough situation
 

I bet and here's why:

Villian kills you with AA or AK-AJ. He would of course jam the pot with these. But if we check this, I see him betting with not only those hands but KK-God-knows-what. On a coordinated board he would be correct in doing so.

At that point, we're either calling down with a second-best hand or folding a better hand. How do we know?--that blows.

If we bet, we at least get some information on Villain before we seal our fate in this hand. If he just calls, he almost certainly doesn't have us beat.

If he happens to raise, that's not a bad thing either, which is also why I think our bet is important. His raise does something for us we can't do ourselves: protect our hand (which admittedly may not be as good once he raises, but eliminating players is important to our success). On this board I love the idea of facing the others with two bets.

For me, all this adds up to betting being the most positive expectation.

Re: Another tough situation
 

This is a very co-ordinated board. Even if you bet into the 3 better and he raises forcing the fied to call 2 cold, the pot is so big that they will be getting correct odds to call. So you can't protect your hand here. And if you are behind to the button betting into him will suck.
So I check it, see what the button does and re-evaluate on the turn.

Re: Another tough situation
 

*grunch*

I'd bet. The pot is big, my hand is probably best now and I want to protect myself against a J, an 8 with a good kicker and Gutshots that could out-draw me easily (up to 14 outs against me). I am not so sure about protecting against weaker aces. They only have 3 outs so they pay you off most of the time. Nevertheless, I actually want BU to raise my bet and make the others cold-call and get HU with him. I won't make flushdraws fold so they can pay me off nicely when they don't hit. When BU plays reasonably postflop, a raise means an A in his hand, probably. I'd then 3bet and call-down if he caps (release the hand if another diamond comes and there is action in front of you).

Re: Another tough situation
 

I dont like the raise. Bet on the flop.

Re: Another tough situation
 

I like a flop check, and evaluating the reaction to Button's bet. If we're heads up on the turn I go into WA/WB.

The only thing about this plan is I'm not sure what to do if it's two bets back to me. I could easily see a scenario where button bets KK-JJ, and one of the EP limpers check-raises w. AXs, X&lt;T. The pot's getting pretty big. But I would hate getting trapped between two big hands as well.

It's still early and I get confused easily.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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I like a flop check, and evaluating the reaction to Button's bet. If we're heads up on the turn I go into WA/WB.

The only thing about this plan is I'm not sure what to do if it's two bets back to me. I could easily see a scenario where button bets KK-JJ, and one of the EP limpers check-raises w. AXs, X&lt;T. The pot's getting pretty big. But I would hate getting trapped between two big hands as well.

It's still early and I get confused easily.

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I think if it's 2 bets back to us, we cold-call. If button 3-bets then we can either fold to the cap coming back or check-fold the turn UI.

Re: Another tough situation
 

This pot is to friggin big to go into wa/wb on the flop imo. I don't mind spraying a few chips on the flop if it improves my chances of winning or gaining value when ahead. I think putting a couple of bets in on the flop when behind is a much smaller mistake than giving the field a free card or missing a value bet if ahead. I would almost always bet here.

Re: Another tough situation
 

i basically never bet in these situations, unless i have a monster and some really bad players who will coldcall two between.

or at a 2+2 table with a strong hand because 2+2ers get owned when someone donks the flop after they raise preflop.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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This is a very co-ordinated board. Even if you bet into the 3 better and he raises forcing the fied to call 2 cold, the pot is so big that they will be getting correct odds to call. So you can't protect your hand here. And if you are behind to the button betting into him will suck.
So I check it, see what the button does and re-evaluate on the turn.

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I think this is the only response so far that has taking the pot size into consideration and hence probably gives us our best line of action.

Re: Another tough situation
 

Here I like checking and letting CO bet so that we can use the action behind us to make a better decision.

I think a good plan would be to check raise for value if the limpers both call and to play it wa/wb otherwise. I am not sure what to do if it ends up 3 handed.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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If we bet, we at least get some information on Villain before we seal our fate in this hand. If he just calls, he almost certainly doesn't have us beat.

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I'm prolly calling here if you bet into me and I hold one of the hands that crushes you, and raising a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn (assuming I'm not holding AK-Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

-Jaran

Re: Another tough situation
 

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If we bet, we at least get some information on Villain before we seal our fate in this hand. If he just calls, he almost certainly doesn't have us beat.

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I'm prolly calling here if you bet into me and I hold one of the hands that crushes you, and raising a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn (assuming I'm not holding AK-Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

-Jaran

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That's cause you're a nasty evil tricky person.

Re: Another tough situation
 

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If we bet, we at least get some information on Villain before we seal our fate in this hand. If he just calls, he almost certainly doesn't have us beat.

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I'm prolly calling here if you bet into me and I hold one of the hands that crushes you, and raising a non [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn (assuming I'm not holding AK-Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img])

-Jaran

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That's cause you're a nasty evil tricky person.

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]