Black should have won
 

I can't find much at falt with Hachem's play in the WSOP, but I really think that out of the final table Andy Black played the best poker. He made one or two mistakes, but that is inevitable after playing for seven days straight. He showed some real genius to get where he did. His re raise on Phil Ivey with A2 was the best pre flop play I have EVER seen in poker, let alone the first hand of the last 27 of the world series. I've seen this play criticised on here, and I really can't believe that. The simple fact of the matter is that Dannenman hit a 5 outer against him with two cards to come, after Black had made an unbelievable call with merely top pair weak kicker on a straight board. If he'd won this pot he would have had a resounding chip lead with four players left. His reads of the other players were absolutely phenomenal, and there is no doubt in my mind that the best player at this year's world series came fifth.

Re: Black should have won
 

In my opinion he made the mistake at least two times of exposing his hands non-verbally. He would start smiling upstoppably, and every time he had a monster, and every time his opponent folded wisely.

Re: Black should have won
 

Andy? Is that you?

Re: Black should have won
 

Hachem deserves this win. He was struggling with being one of the short stacks for most of the final table. He didn't get to cruise to the end with the chip lead like Moneymaker and Raymer did. He obviously was card dead for a majority of the final table but he showed tremendous patience for all 13.5 hours, especially after a long week.

Re: Black should have won
 

Hey, Could someone describe to me what happened with that A2 hand? I missed that episode.

Re: Black should have won
 

My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

I don't remember the blinds, position or stacks.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

I don't remember the blinds, position or stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close. Ivey had K8h, Black had A2h.

Re: Black should have won
 

I think Hachem should have won cause he won the chips in the pots where he ended wiht the best hand and did this untill he had all the chips in play. Ussually a sign of being the winner.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mucking this face up is a big mistake imo. I know it might get him action on his future big hands, but since he wants to repeat this play, like he did with his KJ hand, i think it hurts him more than helps him.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

I don't remember the blinds, position or stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close. Ivey had K8h, Black had A2h.

[/ QUOTE ]

Close. Ivey had K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and Black had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. But keep trying.

A2 hand
 

Ivey had Kh5h. Black had Ad2d. Ivey made it 50k, Black re raised to 120k. Ivey re re raised to 600k. Black then went all in. IMO Ivey looked very weak when he made it 600k, he was as still as a rock and his hand was up covering his mouth. His eyes also took on a really worried look when Black went for more chips.

As regards showing the hand, it is a no brainer. Of course you show somebody like Ivey a bluff like this, it means they will not mess around with you from then on in. That play in my opinion was the reason Ivey didn't win this years world series, he was visibly rattled by it and didn't regain his composure, eventually going out with JJ vKK.

Re: Black should have won
 

Black is obviously an extremely talented player and I liked his style, however is undoing wasn't all bad luck he did make a few HUGE mistakes.

Mistake 1:

Prior to the final table the push of KJ over Tex's raise was JJ suicidal. He had a massive chip lead and Tex was one of the few stacks that could really sting him. Tex was an extremely tight player and wasn't going to be raising a 5 way pot with a weak hand and knows that andy wouldn't just call 3 limpers with a weak hand either.

Mistake 2:

It's arguable but I thought he played his set too fast on Kanter, think he could have stacked him.

Mistake 3: Trying to push Danneman off his AK w/ 1010 on his bow out hand. I understand the push with 1010 but I think he should have stopped and go'd in that instance. Danneman was in true gamble/coinflip mode so he wasn't folding preflop. He would have folded to a flop push from Black however.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
Close. Ivey had K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and Black had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. But keep trying.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least I had the colors right.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

I don't remember the blinds, position or stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it would have been WAY better if black just showed the deuce

Re: Black should have won
 

Winning #7+ million with 7-3 is awesome.

What a game...

Re: Black should have won
 

This just goes to show you though that being over aggressive can hurt you. He lost a third of his stack reraising Kanter when Kanter had pocket Kings. Hachem played tight and solid and it paid off in the end. Overall though yes I believe he did play great. Can't play perfect all the time

Re: Black should have won
 

Black was a great player, and I really felt bad for him when the king landed on the turn vs. him. You could feel a ton of bricks hit him in the gut when it came.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
I can't find much at falt with Hachem's play in the WSOP, but I really think that out of the final table Andy Black played the best poker. He made one or two mistakes, but that is inevitable after playing for seven days straight. He showed some real genius to get where he did. His re raise on Phil Ivey with A2 was the best pre flop play I have EVER seen in poker, let alone the first hand of the last 27 of the world series. I've seen this play criticised on here, and I really can't believe that. The simple fact of the matter is that Dannenman hit a 5 outer against him with two cards to come, after Black had made an unbelievable call with merely top pair weak kicker on a straight board. If he'd won this pot he would have had a resounding chip lead with four players left. His reads of the other players were absolutely phenomenal, and there is no doubt in my mind that the best player at this year's world series came fifth.


[/ QUOTE ]
In that case Phil Ivey whould have won every tournament he ever played in.

Here, meet my friend tournament poker and his very good friend variance.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mucking this face up is a big mistake imo. I know it might get him action on his future big hands, but since he wants to repeat this play, like he did with his KJ hand, i think it hurts him more than helps him.

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I disagree. He needed to show that hand so that Ivey wouldn't keep trying to bully the table. Black showed that he had the balls to raise with lesser hands and he put the brakes on Ivey.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
Mistake 2:

It's arguable but I thought he played his set too fast on Kanter, think he could have stacked him.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought the exact same thing. This kid had shown the ability to pounce on perceived weakness and stick his considerable stack in w/ weak holdings. Black's set was a monster on that relatively drawless board. I thought that he wasted that hand.

Re: Black should have won
 

Andy should have won, beecause of his chipstack, not because of how he played the final table.

He shouhld have stacked kanter on that set of 5's hand, and he made a few other questionable plays. I didnt think he played an especially good final table.

Re: Black should have won
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My recollection:

Ivey open raises to 30-40k with ~KJo, Black makes it 100k with A2o, Ivey pumps it up to 500k, Black goes all in. Ivey folds. Black mucks A2o face up.

I don't remember the blinds, position or stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think it would have been WAY better if black just showed the deuce

[/ QUOTE ]
Or: "I'll show you one. You get to pick which."