not so sure about this hand
 

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

MP ($406.50)
Button ($121.60)
SB ($697.50)
BB ($573.60)
Hero ($1192.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $28</font>, Hero calls $12.

Flop: ($58) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $75</font>, Hero calls $75.

Turn: ($208) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $75</font>, Hero calls $75.

River: ($358) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks

alright im 99% sure he has an overpair, other 1% is reserved for the rare times he has AK

my 7, 8, and clubs are all good outs

how do i maximize value? he will probably go to the felt with even 88 here, so i didnt feel like raising flop/turn was gonna do me any good, especially with the great price he's offering me on the turn

i definitely think he will pay off, even if he has like TT and the Ac falls

he called a re-raise from button with AJs against my KK and went all-in on a 9TT flop with his draw and spiked an A

how much do i bet on river? he's got about pot left

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

I'd go with half pot, you didn't exactly hit the most welldisguised of your draws. I doubt most sane players are paying off with their entire stack here with an overpair.

I like your play on both flop and turn.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd go with half pot

[/ QUOTE ]

are you at my table or something???

oh yeah. you are. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd go with half pot

[/ QUOTE ]

are you at my table or something???

oh yeah. you are. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see this hand go down tho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

GG, don't really feel like playing 3 handed vs. you and some unknown.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]

I didn't see this hand go down tho [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

GG, don't really feel like playing 3 handed vs. you and some unknown.

[/ QUOTE ]

i got absolutely card. dead. after you joined. playing with 2+2ers = bad mojo

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
he will probably go to the felt with even 88 here, so i didnt feel like raising flop/turn was gonna do me any good, especially with the great price he's offering me on the turn

i definitely think he will pay off, even if he has like TT and the Ac falls

[/ QUOTE ]

I would still raise this flop, but failing to do that, the turn is good unless you think you can push him off a clearly better hand(seems no). River standard is as you probably know ~half-pot but I guess you can "make a play" and "bluff the scarecard" with an allin if you think it'll work semi-often(as you seem to be thinking, so why not?)

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]

I would still raise this flop, but failing to do that, the turn is good unless you think you can push him off a clearly better hand(seems no).

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you have very low fold equity on the flop, after that overbet I think he'll be willing to go to the felt w/ his.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]

I think you have very low fold equity on the flop, after that overbet I think he'll be willing to go to the felt w/ his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, yes , didn't notice it was an overbet... what do you think of a push here, then? you can't really hope for much better flops than these with SCs in raised pots, and you must have some fold equity then?

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I think you have very low fold equity on the flop, after that overbet I think he'll be willing to go to the felt w/ his.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, yes , didn't notice it was an overbet... what do you think of a push here, then? you can't really hope for much better flops than these with SCs in raised pots, and you must have some fold equity then?

[/ QUOTE ]

this guy is not folding an overpair (my read, though of course can be wrong, maybe he plays different with full buy-in or more)

and i just ran the numbers, it's still an absolute coinflip against an overpair .... with this im still not sure whether waiting to hit since i know exactly his holdings is better than trying to raise somewhere on the flop

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

even a total donkey isn't paying off with an overpair here...the board has a the threeflush and a 4 straight on it...the most obvious draw just got there and you played the hand exactly like you were drawing...your hand isn't real disguised.....i'd make a half-pot to 3/4 pot bet here...whatever I think he might call....if you think this guy might like to make "big calls" on the river to snap off bluffs you could consider a push because it looks more like a bluff than a half pot bet...but that's read dependent....absent a read I make a half pot bet which looks like you are taking a stab at the pot.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

If you really think he'll pay off max even if the draw hits, then ofcourse the right play is call/call/allin flop/turn/river but as previous poster said I doubt he is. So when do you want the money to go in? When it's a coinflip(flop) is +ev ofcourse, although maybe not by very much... But what if he pots it on a blank turn? you fold?
As played I doubt you'll get more than 1/2 pot more out of him, which is good considering what you paid but still, I wouldn't count on him giving you those odds on the turn everytime, hence a raise on the flop to either gain a freecard or get it allin right there would be better overall.

Oh and I really doubt he'll call allin on the flop with 88 99 and possibly TT, think of it from his donk perspective: you raised pre and called his reraise, then go allin after his overbet on the flop for another few hundred. That's quite alot of strength right there

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

If his hand range is AA-88, A-Ks, A-Ko, A-Qs, then you have 60% equity on the flop. If his hand range is AA-QQ, A-Ks, A-Ko, A-Qs, then you have 65% equity on the flop.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

If he'll go to the felt on the flop with an overpair but won't pay off a flush, I'd much rather put it in on the flop with 50% equity than call off chips hoping to hit one of my 5 payable outs (the sevens and eights).

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he'll go to the felt on the flop with an overpair but won't pay off a flush, I'd much rather put it in on the flop with 50% equity than call off chips hoping to hit one of my 5 payable outs (the sevens and eights).

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, i guess pushing the flop is probably the best move here ...

anyways i bet 200 on the river and he called quickly with 99

im not sure if he would've called a push, in retrospect, i doubt it

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

I'd be raising the flop here to a pot sized bet which would be around 130, so that would make your bet a total of 205 with making his call and raising it 130 more. If he calls then you naturally check the turn and the river is self explanitory.

Ed S.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be raising the flop here to a pot sized bet which would be around 130, so that would make your bet a total of 205 with making his call and raising it 130 more. If he calls then you naturally check the turn and the river is self explanitory.

Ed S.

[/ QUOTE ]

pot-sized raise would be to 275-ish

which leaves him like 300 on the turn with 600 in the pot, and id feel terrible checking behind and watching him push a blank river and give me 3:1 odds

i just feel that sort of thing happens to me ALL THE TIME. i raise the flop with a big draw, check behind turn, river is a blank, he pushes, i fold(??) or call(??)

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

wait a while, then 2/3 the pot. I swear to god if he has an overpair he will call this more often than 1/2 the pot. It looks like a steal to people for some reason.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

Make it $300 is my standard, bit lower maybe on this board.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

With only 50% equity and no fold equity, I don't see why pushing here is such a good idea. I'd like to be slightly better than even money when pushing my stack.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

All-in

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

I bet around half the pot here. Any more and he's committing his entire stack, and I can't see him doing this after this check.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

i dunno if this changes anything too much but if his overpair has a club in it, he's now 55/45 to win from the flop ....

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

It really doesn't matter, because you have to balance that out with the fact that he could have raised with AK and this is just a CB so...

I like the way you played this. You don't need to really get "payed" off to hit your draw because you're pretty much getting correct odds to call all the way down. You're about 30% on the turn(27% if he's got a club) and he's offering you slightly better than 3:1...easy calldown

If you raise for a free card on the flop(which people have been suggesting) there's the possibility he's pushing here, and then you're only getting even money, which isn't bad but I actually think calling is better. I like making +EV calls much better than breakeven pushes(unless I get some fold equity which you say isn't happening).

NH

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd be raising the flop here to a pot sized bet which would be around 130, so that would make your bet a total of 205 with making his call and raising it 130 more. If he calls then you naturally check the turn and the river is self explanitory.

Ed S.

[/ QUOTE ]

pot-sized raise would be to 275-ish

which leaves him like 300 on the turn with 600 in the pot, and id feel terrible checking behind and watching him push a blank river and give me 3:1 odds

i just feel that sort of thing happens to me ALL THE TIME. i raise the flop with a big draw, check behind turn, river is a blank, he pushes, i fold(??) or call(??)

[/ QUOTE ]


Yeah I know it sucks and it makes you sick. But fold you must. You know with him re-raising you preflop you have to give him credit to a pocket pair. You've got to check turn and if you miss river and get a blank, you must fold. Calling here is just throwing money away unless you have a fantastic read on him and he has Air with A-Kc

Ed S.

Re: not so sure about this hand
 

I bomb the flop.