A good river fold I think
 

Button is unknown so I'm assuming semi-loose passive 23/10-ish.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Nevermind the pf I was trying some jedi-mind tricks.

Flop: (5 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, MP checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, MP calls, CO folds.

Yup

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
MP checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP calls.

Yup

River: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero folds.

I fold, the pot is medium, I felt like it was close decision. What do you think?

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

Re: A good river fold I think
 

Haven't played much of 6max, but looks fine IMO.

Although you may open yourself up to some 4flush bluffs so keep that in mind.

'Clark's theorm: [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BET.'

Re: A good river fold I think
 

I agree.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

I fold this pre-flop.
Please criticize.


BTW, I like how you played this.
Turn bet is great.
River fold good.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

If I'm the villian I bet this river every single time regardless of what I have. I agree that it's close as we are only getting 6.5:1. In a bigger pot we must call. If villian checks this river, do we value bet and fold to ck raise or just take the free showdown?

Re: A good river fold I think
 

I like how you tell us you don't have a good read on yourself [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I think this is kind of similiar to the "fold to donk bet" post I had earlier. I called turn donk and river bet with top pair after board paired, and the concensus was that is correct. So it seems like a call would be better here, but I know what you mean, you're almost sure he has the flush.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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Nevermind the pf I was trying some jedi-mind tricks.

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These are not the hole cards you're looking for...fold them.

As for the river, I think about how unknown the button is and how great of a card this would be to bluff. If I have a slight read that he's passive, I'd likely fold it.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

Even passive players are capable of finding a river bluff when a) the board pairs or b) a fourth flush-card hits. I would call this unless villain is just a complete uber-fish.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

I'm probably spewing, but that's the one heart that maybe makes me raise the river. If it's a jack and I make my two pair, no way. But with my trips now, I might raise, representing that I had been betting the flush draw all along. You don't slow down when the flush hits on the turn, so I think it's entirely possible that if the guy has half a brain, and he's bluffing the river, or else has a baby flush, he could fold this. Even if I don't raise, I can't find a fold here. You only have to be right once in 6.5 times. That's 15%. People love bluffing. It's like crack.

I love your avatar by the way.... [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: A good river fold I think
 

I'd pay off with trips. I'd pay off with a pair of aces. I wouldn't pay off with anything weaker. He may be "bluffing" a medium-strength hand here like ace-no-kicker.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

argh... just fold it preflop already

why are you limping that hand on the button in 6m??

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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Button is unknown so I'm assuming semi-loose passive 23/10-ish.

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23 VPIP is semi-loose?

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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argh... just fold it preflop already

why are you limping that hand on the button in 6m??

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My Maniac tendencies:

How much are we losing by playing this hand? Don't we win more when we are ahead and lose less when behind because we are good players? At 6max I want my opponents to call my bets a lot, so I never want them to know what I have.

I play this hand every time with 2 limpers in front of me. Show me why I should stop.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Button is unknown so I'm assuming semi-loose passive 23/10-ish.

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23 VPIP is semi-loose?

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Whoops, thinking I was full ring.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd pay off with trips. I'd pay off with a pair of aces. I wouldn't pay off with anything weaker. He may be "bluffing" a medium-strength hand here like ace-no-kicker.

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The problem that I have in paying off is that the board looks just as scary to him if he has no heart. Sure he could be bluffing, but he doesn't know I could possibly lay down a hand I've been betting the whole way. Most .5/1 players would call a donk with just a pair no heart. I'm assuming he knows he's getting a river call rather than thinking he can get me to fold.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

[ QUOTE ]
Even passive players are capable of finding a river bluff when a) the board pairs or b) a fourth flush-card hits. I would call this unless villain is just a complete uber-fish.

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You think at .5/1 though?

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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If I'm the villian I bet this river every single time regardless of what I have.

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Spewage minus a read I think.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

grunch

good fold
on the river he probably has the flush or hit the full house

the pot is too small to call since you are behind to so many holdings

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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I'd pay off with trips. I'd pay off with a pair of aces. I wouldn't pay off with anything weaker. He may be "bluffing" a medium-strength hand here like ace-no-kicker.

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The problem that I have in paying off is that the board looks just as scary to him if he has no heart. Sure he could be bluffing, but he doesn't know I could possibly lay down a hand I've been betting the whole way. Most .5/1 players would call a donk with just a pair no heart. I'm assuming he knows he's getting a river call rather than thinking he can get me to fold.

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The scariness of the board makes it *MORE* likely that he's bluffing, not less. If it were a brick, it's more likely that you're going to call, so it's not worth even trying to bluff. Even the very poor players recognize this. They're not weighing the chance of you folding against the size of the pot, and they're almost certainly not considering the previous action. A bluffing card fell, and now they think they can bluff you out of the pot.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

You are not allowed to post 4 times in a row with that avatar!

I wish I had a cookie...

-ZEN

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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argh... just fold it preflop already

why are you limping that hand on the button in 6m??

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People should stop saying this. Preflop play matters little compared to postflop. Yeah, it's probably a mistake, but its not a huge one. In fact, I'd go so far as to say folding the river cost him more than calling preflop.

If he was really 23/10 then I assume he has some idea how to play poker, and might make a run at this river often enough to call. You know he's not betting a low flush, because he doesn't want you to raise with your bigger flush, and would rather let you bluff bet your non-flush to him when you might not call.

Re: A good river fold I think
 

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I'd pay off with trips. I'd pay off with a pair of aces. I wouldn't pay off with anything weaker. He may be "bluffing" a medium-strength hand here like ace-no-kicker.

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The problem that I have in paying off is that the board looks just as scary to him if he has no heart. Sure he could be bluffing, but he doesn't know I could possibly lay down a hand I've been betting the whole way. Most .5/1 players would call a donk with just a pair no heart. I'm assuming he knows he's getting a river call rather than thinking he can get me to fold.

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The scariness of the board makes it *MORE* likely that he's bluffing, not less. If it were a brick, it's more likely that you're going to call, so it's not worth even trying to bluff. Even the very poor players recognize this. They're not weighing the chance of you folding against the size of the pot, and they're almost certainly not considering the previous action. A bluffing card fell, and now they think they can bluff you out of the pot.

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Oh #@*&amp;, maybe I'm just realizing how bad they are for the first time.