I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

I just transitioned up to PS 5/10, still doing some 3/6 and one or two tables at time looking for good table selection.
I don't find this a problem at the beginning of sessions, TAG play works... but then it sort of stops working for me without being able to checkraise effectively. I can induce some bluffs on the river, but have a hard time raising.
I also might not be three betting enough, but I haven't looked yet.
Here is one hand I try to check raise.

Player to my left will not raise anyone or anything. but he will bet out.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, CO calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (15 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP folds, CO folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks.

River: (9 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks. UTG... checks.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

Ok ok, let me get this straight. You paid a lot of bets to see a flop with a pocket pair. Fine, but you need implied odds. You get your set + an ace, so people will hopefulyl want to go to war.

So your tactic is to check? Check-raising sucks here, because betting gets more money in the pot, its that simple. Bet-get raised, and 3-bet, rather then check-raise, he calls, and you get 2 bets.

Be aggressive.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

I paid 2 for a 15 bet pot. and 3 for 20 isn't terrible. I only need 2 more big bets for the implied odds.

I was looking to raise the turn because the read was that this player would never raise anyone. A TPP, and betting the flop would be the same as him betting it.. he might even fold if bet into. Raising the flop would do nothing to protect the hand.. So it is the turn that I don't like.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

checkraising the flop is the play here. hopefully, utg 3bets so you can cr the turn.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

3-bet flop..

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
I paid 2 for a 15 bet pot. and 3 for 20 isn't terrible. I only need 2 more big bets for the implied odds.

I was looking to raise the turn because the read was that this player would never raise anyone. A TPP, and betting the flop would be the same as him betting it.. he might even fold if bet into. Raising the flop would do nothing to protect the hand.. So it is the turn that I don't like.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who cares?

YOU DIDN'T EVEN BET THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

how does your answer change if the player to my left doesn't raise?
He hasn't raised a flop or later street yet at this table. Except with kings, which he would have capped preflop. The player to my right checked the river on the button with A7 on an 4JA7A board.
Which is almost as bad as me checking this river. I still wanted the checkraise.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

Bet the flop!!! Sets on Ace hi flop need to be played fast. Never ever miss an opportunity to bet/raise. Never....I repeat never hit the check or call button with a set on an Ace hi flop!

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

I think playing this hand back on the flop is best.

But if you do go for a turn cr and whiff.

Why, oh why don't you bet the river?

That was the easiest street this hand man [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop!!! Sets on Ace hi flop need to be played fast. Never ever miss an opportunity to bet/raise. Never....I repeat never hit the check or call button with a set on an Ace hi flop!


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Don't we pay attention to relative position any more? There's a very likely flop bet coming from the guy to our immediate left. I like a flop check-raise in those circumstances. Build the pot.

There's no need to worry about protection with a hand like a set: unless you're already losing, you've got waaaay the best of it and want the money going in.

Guy.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop would do nothing to protect the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why on earth are you worried about protecting your hand?

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop would do nothing to protect the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why on earth are you worried about protecting your hand?

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Hahaha. This is my favorite misconception. Sets rarely need protection and they definitely don't need it on this flop. Not betting the river is criminal. Absolutely criminal. Elementary hand reading seems to indicate noone has an ace. What hand do you expect to bet AND call a raise? What hands do you expect to call a river bet? Hmmmm....

Krishan

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

I only gave a cursory look here, but this hand is an abomination. By a quick count you lost about 7.5 BB in this hand. That is a good player's profit for 300 hands. Any ace and any king is going all the way to the river. Not to mention any draws that would pay to see more cards.

There are a number of lines you could have taken here. This was the worst one. In trying to squeeze an extra BB or two you gave up a huge amount of profit. I dream of flopping a set on an ace high board. There may be no hand that is as profitable. You really should have come away from this hand winnning a big pot.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

Think I´d bet the flop as check-raising the guy who didn´t pfr tends to freeze people up and it gives very little info about my hand.
Having checked I would raise anyway, trapping two players is fine.
If UTG is very aggro, then you could bet-3bet the turn, but with your read, you should take control earlier.

River is a bet, people will pay off light when there haven´t been much action.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

i would c/r this flop and lead the turn no matter what my read was. people call down with A's here.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Bet the flop!!! Sets on Ace hi flop need to be played fast. Never ever miss an opportunity to bet/raise. Never....I repeat never hit the check or call button with a set on an Ace hi flop!


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't we pay attention to relative position any more? There's a very likely flop bet coming from the guy to our immediate left. I like a flop check-raise in those circumstances. Build the pot.

There's no need to worry about protection with a hand like a set: unless you're already losing, you've got waaaay the best of it and want the money going in.

Guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. You don't want to bet the flop and have UTG raise out the field. I would certinly c/r that flop and build that pot.

In many situations leading your set can be correct but not in a big multi-way pot when its likely the guy to your left will bet.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

Yeah I have a hand posted right now where no one likes my action on any street--but its not this bad.

Yeah, either bet--intending to 3-bet the flop or c/r it. In isolation its OK to miss a turn c/r--it happens to us all from time the time but with your nothing on the flop and then nothing on the river I can only guess you got disconnected or something?

Also if you are using some kind of HeadsUpDisplay you should do stats with AFs by street--this stuff helps a lot with making the decision between betting or trying for the c/r.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

betting the flop is retarded.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

Thanks for all the replies... I probably tilt checked the river. But I did get a bit to think about and hopefully learn.
results: SB had JTo and UTG had 88. so mhig. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

So the line is check-raise/bet/bet-call? Or check on the river hoping to induce a bluff or lose less to a flush?

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

Why ?

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why ?

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i think its better to go for a flop checkraise so you can trap the field for 2 bets.

due to your relative position to the pfr, if you bet out and he raises the whole field will be facing 2 cold.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

I dont think you can be sure that he will bet as he didn´t put the last bet in preflop and if he does and you raise like you should, then it should be obvious that you are trapping as you take a chance by checking to a guy who didn´t put in the last preflop raise.

I can live with the whole field facing two cold in a 15 SB pot as they likely will make bad calls and get trapped for 3.

Re: I don\'t check raise enough (PS5/10)
 

omg.....

easiest ....

flop.....

c/r....









ever.