Show this down?
 

PokerRoom 1/2 (9 handed)

Hero is UTG+1 with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
1 fold , <font color="red">Hero Raises </font> , 3 folds , CO calls, Button calls, SB folds , BB calls

Flop: (8.5 SB)
A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
BB checks, Hero bets , <font color="red">CO raises </font>, Button calls, BB folds , <font color="red"> Hero 3-bets </font> <font color="red">CO caps </font> ,Button calls, Hero calls

Turn: (10 BB) 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, CO bets , Button calls, Hero calls

River: (13 BB) J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero checks, CO bets , Button folds ,Hero calls

Final Pot (15 BB)

After Villian caps the flop, I figure I'm beat, but with the size of the pot I call it down. Does anyone fold this?

Re: Show this down?
 

I play it the same, but I don't think we're ahead, and I've realized I'm seeing too many showdowns. Still, top frikken pair, as Ed would say.

Reads play a part in this too, of course.

Re: Show this down?
 

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After Villian caps the flop, I figure I'm beat, but with the size of the pot I call it down. Does anyone fold this?

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Yikes. That's tough. I don't fold this without a read. The thing that makes it especially tough is the double-paired board. If villain had 2pr or a set on the flop, we're now f****d.

I'm torn. The fact that I've seen this play with AT and A9 as recently as last night skews me to the call down.

Re: Show this down?
 

Yeah, I realize that a read would help here. That's a part of my game that I really need to work on. I used GameTime+ when I played almost exclusively on Empire. Since the split I've started bonuswhoring and have a hardtime getting GT to work on other sites. I just downloaded PAHUD so that might help, but more importantly I need to start paying more attention and taking notes on players.

I'm curious if anyone else lays this down and why?

Re: Show this down?
 

No reads on CO? I'm definitely calling this down. With nothing to go on, we don't have much of an idea what he might be holding here.

Re: Show this down?
 

improving your game is not about finding good places to "make big lay downs". getting 14-1 on the river you'd have to have a very marginal hand to consider folding.
I quote SSH, "You are correct to pay off!!"

Re: Show this down?
 

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Does anyone fold this?

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God no! I'm leading the turn and calling down a raise.

Re: Show this down?
 

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Does anyone fold this?

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God no! I'm leading the turn and calling down a raise.

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this is way too aggressive.

Re: Show this down?
 

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Does anyone fold this?

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God no! I'm leading the turn and calling down a raise.

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Spew.

Two possibilities:
1. Flush draw that he's pumping.
2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

My first thought is to bet/fold the turn, but then I realize we are in a weird spot on the river. We are behind way too much to bet the river in this type of situation, but checking feels dirty. With this in mind, I probably show down cheaply

Re: Show this down?
 

Looks fine. Can't fold this without a read.

Re: Show this down?
 

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Does anyone fold this?

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God no! I'm leading the turn and calling down a raise.

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Spew.

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No.

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Two possibilities:
1. Flush draw that he's pumping.

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So he checks now, which really sux for our hand.

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2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

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What? That's not true. He has just an A or a flush draw way more then he has AJ, A6, 66, J6, JJ, AA here.

Re: Show this down?
 

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2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

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What? That's not true. He has just an A or a flush draw way more then he has AJ, A6, 66, J6, JJ, AA here.

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gimme some of that crack (throw AK in here too)

Re: Show this down?
 

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2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

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What? That's not true. He has just an A or a flush draw way more then he has AJ, A6, 66, J6, JJ, AA here.

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gimme some of that crack (throw AK in here too)

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Yeah I just skipped that for some reason, but I think the only hands he has here any appreciable amount that beat us are AJ and A6. 66 is a possibility but there's only 1 combo out there. J6 is just absurdly loose, and AK, AA, JJ are not that likely for a CC'er.

Re: Show this down?
 

Bet the turn and c/r the flop

Re: Show this down?
 

I suffer the same fate when it comes to calling down -- I hate to do it seems like a lot of $$ get wasted. Although I really really dont like to call down in this case I would. Here is my rationale which is pretty much the same as the other posters in general. The simple answer is your getting 14 to 1 on the call:

Looks like the hands that beat you are:
AA,AK,AJ, JJ and 66 for a total of 34 hands given 2 aces already out. In addition, there are hands that could be played like that ( depending on the opponent ) to drive you out such as ATs-A2s, KK, and QQ for a total of 30 hands so of the 64 proabable hands 53% win 47% loose at most 50-50 so givien that you are getting 14 to 1 odds you cant fold.

Not sure I did all this right but I have been trying to apply this logic to my river calls when I think I am beat. If I thought my oppoent only riased for value then I would have to revaluate the hand and consider folding earlier.

Re: Show this down?
 

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2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

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What? That's not true. He has just an A or a flush draw way more then he has AJ, A6, 66, J6, JJ, AA here.

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gimme some of that crack (throw AK in here too)

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Yeah I just skipped that for some reason, but I think the only hands he has here any appreciable amount that beat us are AJ and A6. 66 is a possibility but there's only 1 combo out there. J6 is just absurdly loose, and AK, AA, JJ are not that likely for a CC'er.

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You're assigning way too much significance to the preflop coldcall and way not enough significance to the postflop cap.

When you raise preflop, an A hits, and you three-bet, villain knows you have top pair. He's obviously not too worried about it. You should be.

Re: Show this down?
 

A call down is not bad, but I don't see many hands we beat here. He has to assume we have an A and he still capped the flop. I don't think a fold is too bad here. Tough decision either way.

Re: Show this down?
 

What jrz and RamRod said is basically what I was thinking during the hand. But the size of the pot kept me going (I kept think 'Ed would scream at me if I layed down TP2K in this big pot')

Re: Show this down?
 

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2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

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What? That's not true. He has just an A or a flush draw way more then he has AJ, A6, 66, J6, JJ, AA here.

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gimme some of that crack (throw AK in here too)

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Yeah I just skipped that for some reason, but I think the only hands he has here any appreciable amount that beat us are AJ and A6. 66 is a possibility but there's only 1 combo out there. J6 is just absurdly loose, and AK, AA, JJ are not that likely for a CC'er.

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You're assigning way too much significance to the preflop coldcall and way not enough significance to the postflop cap.

When you raise preflop, an A hits, and you three-bet, villain knows you have top pair. He's obviously not too worried about it. You should be.

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You're giving 1/2 players way too much credit.

Re: Show this down?
 

I haven't look at what the others said, but there is no way I would fold this river. It's not an option.

Your decision to call down is not on the river, but on the turn. On this turn, we have an easy call since the 6 is a good card for us that gives us 2 more tying outs against AJ or AK. It also makes it 3 times less likely that we are up against 66. I estimate that if we are behind we usually have 2 outs to win and 3 outs to tie. This gives us about 3.5 outs with possibility that we are still ahead or tied. So I call given 12-1.

On the river the J is also a good card since it reduces the chances that we are against AJ. I certainly call with those 14-1 pot odds. Once in a while Villain could have overplayed an AT or a big draw, or you could be tied with AQ.

Also villain cold called preflop, so if he is the type to 3 bet AA, AK, JJ, there is only 5 "logical" hands that beat you: 66 (1x) and AJ (4 times).

Re: Show this down?
 

I think you have to call down here against an unknown. I really think we're against a maniac, an overplayed weaker ace, or flush draw often enough to warrant it.

If anyoneone wants to fold though, can't we do it on the turn? I'm kind of drunk so can't really do the math, but we are drawing really really thin against any legitimate hand that CC preflop and caps this flop (AJ, A6, 66, JJ).

Re: Show this down?
 

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Does anyone fold this?

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God no! I'm leading the turn and calling down a raise.

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Spew.

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No.

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Two possibilities:
1. Flush draw that he's pumping.

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So he checks now, which really sux for our hand.

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2. 2-pair or better. Most people don't 4-bet a flop with top pair.

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What? That's not true. He has just an A or a flush draw way more then he has AJ, A6, 66, J6, JJ, AA here.

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The flop cap signifies 2 pair or a set like &gt;90% of the time against an unknown at 1/2 IMO. I think we're ahead enough given the random donk factor at these limits, but that is just kind of a guess/feeling and I don't think it's a slam dunk.

Re: Show this down?
 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and hypothesize that you've read SSHE in the past week. Likely your first read through?

I play the hand the same as OP BTW, but I kick the dog after the turn and river cards.

Re: Show this down?
 

Grunch. Do you have a read on the villan? This looks a lot like a set or aces up to me, I don't see much capping with just TPGK. Still I'd probably call down (at least assuming we don't see any more clubs) for the size of the pot, particularly since (a) villan could be pumping a big draw (looks less likely on turn) and (b) since button joining in the fun.

Edit: I shouldn't post when I'm tired and have had severl beers. I can probably find a fold on the turn. The river card is absolutely ugly. Are we good one time in 14 here? I doub it.

Re: Show this down?
 

At 1/2 I've seen Villain's hand being AT or A9 (or A5) so often I would never lay down AQ. Especially for 14 BB