Improving post-flop play
 

A recuring theme in many posts is that you need to improve post-flop skills in order to move from a break-even/slightly winning player to a good play.

Pre-flop play is (generally) easier as there are many lists and lots of advice what to play.

The question is: How do I improve my post-flop play.
"Just practice" is not a real answer.

What should I be looking for?
What books should I be reading (or re-reading)?

I'm sure I am not the only one with this problem. It is the main thing that stops me moving up to higher levels.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

Hey,

I would advise you the following books,

- small stakes holdem by Ed Miller
- Hold em harrington vol 1

And yes its an easy answer but practice is the best learning process

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

I would suggest playing 1-2 tables at a time for 2 hours a week. And put somone on a hand every hand. Really concentrate on the bets, action, position, and use all this to put somone on a hand, not just when you are in the pot. If hand reaches showdown then after the showdown replay everything in your head. Look for the motivations behind bets sizes, think about player types and all of that. Then go back to 8 tabling for the rest of the week. After a while you will start to become better at hand reading. Hand reading is a big key for improved post flop play.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

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put somone on a hand every hand. Really concentrate on the bets, action, position, and use all this to put somone on a hand, not just when you are in the pot.

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This is probably my biggest problem.
I tend to jump around when I am not in a hand.
Sometimes I will even look at web sites (2+2!).

Actually, when my wife sits next to me she tends to stop me jumping around. Maybe I should get her to sit with me more often.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey,

I would advise you the following books,

- small stakes holdem by Ed Miller
- Hold em harrington vol 1

And yes its an easy answer but practice is the best learning process

[/ QUOTE ]

I never get why people recommend SSHE for SSNL players. Yes it's a great book, but limit play is so different from NL that I don't think it's of that much use.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

Cover your hole cards with post-its for one session.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

[ QUOTE ]
I would suggest playing 1-2 tables at a time for 2 hours a week. And put somone on a hand every hand. Really concentrate on the bets, action, position, and use all this to put somone on a hand, not just when you are in the pot. If hand reaches showdown then after the showdown replay everything in your head. Look for the motivations behind bets sizes, think about player types and all of that. Then go back to 8 tabling for the rest of the week. After a while you will start to become better at hand reading. Hand reading is a big key for improved post flop play.

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Good advice.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

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Cover your hole cards with post-its for one session.

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cover your hole cards with post-its for one session.

[/ QUOTE ] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

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so you play based on position, player reads and hand reads - not your cards.

(i dont see this working out well, but great practice.. i'd do it on the smallest NL tables available.. .01/.02 or something)

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

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Pre-flop play is (generally) easier as there are many lists and lots of advice what to play.

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Im of the opinion many postflop errors are made due to preflop, so you say it's "easy," and yet so many people make so many errors.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

Url for below:

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...amp;m_id=65572

There is another spot where Fischman credits Gigabet, I think, with getting him to play with his hole cards covered.


Anyone can read a person’s hand based on his actions and seeing common tendencies; that is, a beginning player will commonly bet small when on a draw and big when he has a made hand. What about more experienced players? What does it mean when they bet two-thirds of the pot one time and then pot the next? They certainly are experienced enough to know not to bet the same pattern for the same types of hands. So, how can you figure out what they have?

Well, get to know them, watch them play. Try to figure out what they’re thinking, as they have to be thinking something.

Put yourself in their spot; what kind of hand would you have if you were betting like that?

Now, do this for every hand of every player who is in a hand, for every player at the table, and if you’re playing online, for every table that you are playing (try to eight-table while doing this exercise). Put effort into every single hand that is played out at your table, not just the hands in which you are involved. Every time there is a showdown, and the losing hand is mucked, open up the hand history file and see what it was. Go through a hand again and see if you can figure out why a player willingly showed down a losing hand (something that rarely should be done).

I called this an exercise, but it should be done on every single hand that is played out at any of your tables for the rest of your poker career. This is how you become a real player. Post-flop is where the real game is at, and it is fun to play.

Use your bets to pull information from an opponent, and then when you know what he has, trust your judgement 100 percent. If you think he is on second pair but will not fold unless you bet your whole stack, bet your whole stack (unless, of course, you have a better hand than second pair, which is unlikely, since players like us can rarely beat bottom pair), even if it means your tournament is over if you are wrong. Practice trusting yourself; you will be wrong enough in the beginning to doubt yourself, but don’t let that stop you.

There is a strong possibility that I am the most active player in the world, and I can honestly say that this is something I do on nearly every hand. Imagine playing 6,000 hands a day on average, and watching and learning with no predisposed judgements of the other players. That is what it takes. Bad beats are no longer bad beats; they are just the cards coming out randomly, evening themselves out over time. What is really important is learning the thousands of languages that different people speak through their actions at the table. Believe me, it isn’t some spiritual science, it is listening and learning without prejudice.

Play online with Scott on his new site, www.thefishtank.com. Enter his referral code, scott88, for a bonus, and look for him at the tables under the screen name ScottFischmn! Scott welcomes questions, suggestions, and feedback, and can be contacted via e-mail at [email protected].

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

The basic beginner's theory is that "tight is right". If you start out tight then you have really good starting hands and avoid a lot of post-flop problems. Post-flop play is usually dependent on something.......player reads, stack size, position, multi-way pot, pre-flop action, etc. The list goes on forever. Because of this situation it's not practical to write a NLHE book. Much easier to write (and sell) stuff about Limit.

2+2 is a great tool, so is PSO, but the easiest way is to hire a good coach. Check out BobboFitos......and no, I'm not getting paid for this plug.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

[ QUOTE ]
What books should I be reading (or re-reading)?


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ToP
ToP
ToP

in this order.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

One of the things I always do is watch the hands being played that I'm not involved in. As bets are made and then raises, etc. I ask myself what do you have to have to call this bet/raise/reraise?

For example, (you're not in this hand) it's limped around preflop and 5 people are in. Flop is K-Q-10. Action on the flop is bet pot, raise pot, reraise by a third player. I think to myself, what does the first and second player have to have to call these raises? Normally, it's A-J, of course. I think I can guess my opponents' proper play the vast majority of time.

I think this helps because you then get in the habit of thinking the same thing for yourself when you're in a hand. OK, he raised on that board what's the minimum I need to call this? I don't have that, so I'm folding even though I flopped the nut flush. I think this exercise helps a lot in improving your postflop play.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

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There is another spot where Fischman... play with his hole cards covered.

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"As a testament to the experimentation that is possible with online action, Scott said he used to put tape on the monitor so that he couldn’t see his holecards. 'It was a great way to learn about position.'"
full article

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

i really like scrapperdogs post, makes alot of sense and should help you improve your post-flop game immensly. I am going to try it out myself.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What books should I be reading (or re-reading)?


[/ QUOTE ]
ToP
ToP
ToP

in this order.

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I think you overlooked ToP, ToP and ToP on your list.

Re: Improving post-flop play
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What books should I be reading (or re-reading)?


[/ QUOTE ]
ToP
ToP
ToP

in this order.

[/ QUOTE ]
Since this is a re-read list I have to admit I am only on the first one. Two more re-reads to go.

As a side note for anyone reading this thread:

It is very tempting to say "I have read book xxx, why read it again?" Well, I thought the same about ToP until I started to re-read it. Amazing how quickly you forget what's in it.
I even bought a new copy after my old one went missing. Of course, my son then found it for me. Where was it? In the toilet, of course. Best place to read them - that way the wife doesn't complain about you "reading those stupid poker books again!"