A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

This might be interesting. I just sat down, but you know the usual suspects.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP (Sightless) 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB (TheMainEvent) caps</font>, Hero calls, MP (Sightless) calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TheMainEvent bets</font>.

What's the plan, guys?

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

check raise flop and lead turn.

Edit: OK, that's impossible. I'd call the flop and raise the turn.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

is it a serious table or LAGfest? also, which site? i need more accounts.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Party, very serious. Check bottomset's post.

Edit: Although JaxUp is being ferocious lag, but a thinking one.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
is it a serious table or LAGfest? also, which site? i need more accounts.

[/ QUOTE ]

very serious. party...see 2+2 game thread for details

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

If this is a serious table, I really think your only option here is to play WA/WB and just call-down. If they really get in a war, I may be able to pitch it on the turn.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Just call down? Wuss.

Raise to protect your hand. If you get 3-bet, then you can call down unless you improve.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
Just call down? Wuss.

Raise to protect your hand. If you get 3-bet, then you can call down unless you improve.

[/ QUOTE ]

To protect from what? Give me a hand-range of these guys and tell me what I should be raising to protect from here.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Am I really calling down if I get 3bet?

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
Am I really calling down if I get 3bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, which is another reason I hate raising.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Well, he're the real question. What is Sightless's range of hands? Of those hands, what hands will he raise/call/fold if I call? What ones will he raise/call/fold if I raise?

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

88-KK all are folding if you raise. They may or may not call-down if you just call. I think there's a good chance TT-KK will call this down if you just call (which is obviously great to help pad the pot for you). Also, these hands are never raising.
AT may fold to a raise (obviously bad for us), but AQ and AK definitely won't.
Thus, again, I think raising here sucks.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I'm grunching this one, but I feel the pot's too big to fold, so we call this and see if the turn brings us closer to our BD flush or two pair. I'll be interested to see the rest of the posts.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Given the preflop action and this ragged board, what exactly are you protecting against?

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
This might be interesting. I just sat down, but you know the usual suspects.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP (Sightless) 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB (TheMainEvent) caps</font>, Hero calls, MP (Sightless) calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TheMainEvent bets</font>.

What's the plan, guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

I really dont like calling this flop. If it is a serious table and they are not lagging it up. I fear for you. Another problem I see with calling is that Mp might raise it. heads up I would be more inclined to call down but not here.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Let's move the discussion toward Wook's question of hand ranges....the way I see it, MP 3-bets with AA thru TT, AKs or AKo. Depending on his aggressiveness and his respect of your raises, maybe AQs?

To me BB's cap has got to signal AA, KK, AKs, maybe QQ.

Now I'll go think about the ramifications of that while you guys agree/disagree with my range of hands.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Your range is too tight, methinks. This is a serious table, but everyone is playing very aggressively.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I see your reasoning here, but if our aces are good it would be an awful mistake to give up this good-sized pot.

So our pair is possibly good, and the BD flush draw adds value. I really want to see the turn card.

By staying in for the one bet, we get to gain some valuable info. Say MP raises and BB 3-bets....we can then safely fold. And if we're assuming good players here, MP has to almost certainly raise or fold, and I would look to see BB's reaction.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Assuming everyone is playing seriously, you have to assign premium hands to BB capping out of position. AA-JJ &amp; AK.

With that flop and his lead out, I don't think that you can narrow that down quite yet.

Raise to protect your hand on the flop. If raised, call and fold the turn UI.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

This idea of protecting our hand isn't making sense to me in this situation. Raising for information on the cheaper street, maybe, but I don't see any scary drawouts that we need to protect against....maybe someone could enlighten me.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Im gonna have to agree. An underpair has 2 outs and a hand we dominate has 3.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Fold PF u jerk

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I went ahead and raised, and it's probably wrong. What I was thinking at the time is that Sightless might raise behind me with KK and put me in a terrible spot. However, I knew right well that Sightless was playing nittier than your average bear at this table (which was still fairly laggy), and he'd be pretty stupid to raise a pf-capper and a caller on an A high flop with KK. I should have known better than to raise.

The turn on this hand is pretty interesting, IMO, as well. I'll just show you what I did, and you can discuss what I was thinking and how meritorious that is.


Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TheMainEvent bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Sightless folds, TheMainEvent calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
TheMainEvent checks, Hero checks.

Edit: FWIW, I think Sightless's range in this is roughly 88+, ATs+, AJo+, KQs+. The game was slightly loose and very aggressive. I'm not sure if it was more common to have doubly raised pots or singly raise pots. Virtually every pot was raised, and virtually every pot was contested. TME's range is going to be more like TT+, AK, AQs, although it might be a bit tighter than that (no TT, no AQs).

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

If we're not folding, this is how I see it:

Just calling will allow MP to raise with a larger range of hands. I can see him testing BB with his KK, QQ, AQ-AJ, or even less.

However, if we raise here, we can freeze up any tricky stuff from MP and face him with two bets, against the original preflop raiser and the capper. He certainly could only reraise a monster in this instance. If he did I think we fold.

For BB to cap and lead out the flop takes a certain confidence, so our raise not only forces MP to expose his strength, but tests BB as well, while it's still cheap to do so. Without a big ace I don't see how he can 3-bet us given the action.

Overall, I think we can't fold if we might have the best hand here, and our only way of gaining insight to that is to raise for information. Any thoughts?

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Your thinking seems pretty clear to me -- get this hand to showdown. It really comes down to how often they will checkraise you as a semi-bluff there. No idea, but I think a value bet here would be thin at best, given that you are either outkicked or you have his big pair smoked.

What I think is going to be interesting is if it is checked to you on the river. Do you value bet?

As for the flop, am I the only one who calls with the intention of reevaluating based on impending action? If MP calls, I'm probably blasting any turn card. If it goes raise and 3-bet, it looks like a fairly easy fold. If he raises and the BB calls, you are probably (but not certainly) behind but drawing live.

-K

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Wook I'm a bit confused here....for starters, which play are you claiming is better than raising, call or fold? To me it seems MP's fold and BB's freezing up is justification for your raise.

Secondly, once BB only calls you and checks the turn, my instinct says to bet there, yet you check. Can you go into your reasoning a bit on this? Thanks

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wook I'm a bit confused here....for starters, which play are you claiming is better than raising, call or fold? To me it seems MP's fold and BB's freezing up is justification for your raise.

Secondly, once BB only calls you and checks the turn, my instinct says to bet there, yet you check. Can you go into your reasoning a bit on this? Thanks

[/ QUOTE ]

His turn check was good. If he bet he could expect a fold or a c/r, and a c/r is very bad for him here.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I just call the flop here, I don't really see KK or QQ raising behind you

I like the turn check behind given how you played it

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just call the flop here, I don't really see KK or QQ raising behind you

I like the turn check behind given how you played it

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just call the flop here, I don't really see KK or QQ raising behind you

I like the turn check behind given how you played it

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
I just call the flop here, I don't really see KK or QQ raising behind you

I like the turn check behind given how you played it

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

FLOP: One way: just call it down and raise on the river maybe. If you raise the flop, anyone without a good ace folds, so let him do the betting for you with his KK. If he has AK or AQ, you lose the least.

TURN: Bet. What's with the checkthrough?

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I'm late to the game but I like just calling the flop.

Since you guys are at least trying and not simply clicking the 'raise' button I don't think the guy behind is going to get frisky with a hand you're beating.

Also, I've played in quite a few of these games and his 3-bet before the flop could be a lot of hands, most of which you don't mind him calling with. (Although I think he's folding a huge percentage of the time, and he's likely very right to do so.)

I like the turn. It's going to be tough for him to call with a worse hand, and you also encourage him to flail on the river whild not giving him the chance bluff you off the best hand.

(Although, while your turn check might induce a bluff, I'm guessing if he bets the river you're beaten, but nowhere near often enough to fold.)

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I think I'd call the flop and raise any non-diamond turn, folding to a 3-bet. My river plan would depend on who is still in the hand.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

Is it me, but I'd have fold pré-flop here.
First, with A-Js UTG, i like to call, not raise. After, you are reraised and then it's capped to you. I don't think you have the best hand right now, and you clearly not have the position, this is why i fold here.

But you have call, and SB bet on the flop. I'm sur he has a better Ace, the SB won't bet with 3 players behind him with K-K. And we won't capped préflop with A-10, so again, you have to fold.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

I like the turn check behind. Getting check-raised here would really stink. (Doesn't help matters that we're now behind KK either.) Plus, I think if you're ahead, there's an excellent chance your turn bet isn't getting called. So he folds if we're ahead, and he could c/r us if we're behind. If you check, he will most likely bet the river for you.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
This might be interesting. I just sat down, but you know the usual suspects.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP (Sightless) 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB (TheMainEvent) caps</font>, Hero calls, MP (Sightless) calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TheMainEvent bets</font>.

What's the plan, guys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call the flop. If raised, call the raise and fold the turn unimproved (no J, no flush draw - I didn't get if you have BDFD or not). Don't raise if an A falls.

(I don't know any of the the players invloved so this is just a guess based on the fact that they are 2+2's)
Sightless has 77-AA Aks-AJs, KQs
TheMainEvent has a high PP or AK

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]


Flop: (12.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">TheMainEvent bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Sightless folds, TheMainEvent calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
TheMainEvent checks, Hero checks.

Edit: FWIW, I think Sightless's range in this is roughly 88+, ATs+, AJo+, KQs+. The game was slightly loose and very aggressive. I'm not sure if it was more common to have doubly raised pots or singly raise pots. Virtually every pot was raised, and virtually every pot was contested. TME's range is going to be more like TT+, AK, AQs, although it might be a bit tighter than that (no TT, no AQs).

[/ QUOTE ]

As you can see I am answering this blind...

I love the check. I call every river bet and raise an ace. Check behind on a Q or K.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
Is it me, but I'd have fold pré-flop here.
First, with A-Js UTG, i like to call, not raise. After, you are reraised and then it's capped to you. I don't think you have the best hand right now, and you clearly not have the position, this is why i fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hi John - Welcome to the forums!

Two things: 1) You should be raising this from UTG at full ring 0.5/1, must less in UTG 6-handed. (That's like MP2 in a full game - limping first-in with a pretty hand like AJ would be a big no-no.) And 2) This is a 2+2 game. They're very aggressive. We definitely can call after it's capped behind us. I might even call in a regular game, depending on the opponents.

[ QUOTE ]
But you have call, and SB bet on the flop. I'm sur he has a better Ace, the SB won't bet with 3 players behind him with K-K. And we won't capped préflop with A-10, so again, you have to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero's raise and MP's 3-bet aren't necessarily an A. Again, this is an aggressive game. SB is betting here out of position and will re-evaluate after the action.

Re: A Hand from the 2+2 Table that I don\'t think I played very well
 

[ QUOTE ]
I call every river bet and raise an ace. Check behind on a Q or K.

[/ QUOTE ]

Given my range, how is an second A going to give him the winning hand if he didn't have it already?