When to move down
 

Well, since 10/27, I have been 10 tabling the 109s. Everything went well for first 1000, as I had a nice 10% roi. The 500 games after that though have been a nice -10% roi. At first, I just thought it was a normal swing. I am pretty damn sure it isnt though. I am losing a lot more hands than I am supposed to, I think, but I see no reason for this luck to change. I guess it should be noted that I had a -5% 1000 game set of 215s, but I think I was just playing bad then, plus, rakeback covered most of those losses. Anyways, I ran the roi simulator thing and I am supposed to have a 30 buyin drop. Right now, i'm at 40 and it is sucking pretty bad. I guess i am just looking for advice about what to do. I really dont want to drop down to the $55s, but I just might if I keep on losing hard. Sorry for my little rant...I guess I just dont tihnk I can lose for 500 games and still be a winning player.

Re: When to move down
 

Slow down, maybe?! 1000 SNG's in two weeks is freakish and could easily lead to burn out. Take a couple of days off.

Re: When to move down
 

I'd probably suggest playing fewer tables instead of moving down. Sounds like you just need to double-check your plays, maybe fill in some leaks. You know that you can beat that game, so unless your bankroll needs to move down (which I doubt) or you just need some confidence, there's no real reason to move down.

Maybe 4 table for a few days and really focus on making correct reads/plays on every hand. That and stop posting on 2+2 when you have 8 games going. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: When to move down
 

thats another thing...i HATE taking days off. I guess I am addicted to the game. I guess I really dont enjoy doing much, and that is obviously a problem. Oh well...I guess i'm just a degenerate gamboooler.

Re: When to move down
 

"i HATE taking days off. I guess I am addicted to the game."

Well this is great for your income. I'd love to be able to put in 40hr weeks, but I HATE it. I hate putting in any hours at all. I'm trying to get myself to make 20-30k next month to finish up poker, but it probally won't happen. I can do a hardcore week (eg a 60hr week) but it's too hard to put in 40hrs a week, week after week.

I wanna make a shitload of money over the next 6 weeks so I can finish up on poker. Hard to do when you don't really enjoy it. Maybe I just have to get into the rhythm. Last time I put in big hours I was ok as long as I just kept playing.

Re: When to move down
 

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thats another thing...i HATE taking days off. I guess I am addicted to the game. I guess I really dont enjoy doing much, and that is obviously a problem. Oh well...I guess i'm just a degenerate gamboooler.

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I think you are on the right track here. Investigate further all the points you made above.

Re: When to move down
 

Play fewer tables. Work more on your early game.

Re: When to move down
 

my advice would be to drop down to playing 4 to 6 tables. then every 50 games stop and pick 5 to 10 at random and replay them watching for any bad decisions.

I've had a few bad runs that result in low confidence, and a combination of a week off, playing less tables, and reviewing hands has generally helped. If it's a more general burnout question then learning a new game, limit or nl holdem, omaha08, etc can make it interesting again

Re: When to move down
 

I'm not burnt out all and I am pretty damn sure I am making the right plays, I am just losing every hand I showdown, and I dont know how to deal with this. If I was playing like a moron, I know how to fix that. I miiight be pushing too much. I will probably slow down a little next time I play and not push as much. I have decided that when I get down to $10,000 in my party account, I am going to drop down to $55s. Right now, I am sitting around 12k and I had about 16k when I started losing. So, if I manage to drop 60 buyins, I will drop down. This sound reasonable to everyone? I guess I am just not used to losing for 5 days in a row. I know it doesnt sound like much, but it sucks when I WAS winning 1k a day for the previous 15 dys or so. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about...but if I do, I want to be prepared for it.

Re: When to move down
 

if over 1500 SnGs you are even at the 100s you have MAJOR leaks

Re: When to move down
 

[ QUOTE ]
... I WAS winning 1k a day for the previous 115 dys or so.

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Wow, nice run. Where did all the money go?

Re: When to move down
 

Please teach me to hit 10% 10 tabling the 109s.

Re: When to move down
 

I dont know enough to say your playing perfect or that you suck right now. But 1000 215's at -5% and 500 109's at -10% SUGGESTS there MAY be a problem.

Taking time off would give you a new outlook, let you see things fresh. Playing less tables would give you more time to notice what is going on, maybe see some situations you can avoid trouble or exploit to your advantage. reviewing when your not playing 10 tables will let you know if you've been missing stuff from being to busy.

I dont suggest those things cause I like to type, cause I don't. I suggest them because they work. One of 3 things are happening here. 1) you are on an epic negative verience run. 2) you ran fantastically good before and never really belonged at the 215's or 109's. 3) something is off in your game that isn't obviose to you.

1 and 2 are the most unlikely. So I am trying to get you to work on 3. You can continue to assume your are playing perfect, and keep moving down if nessesary, or you can at least try the things I'm suggesting and see if anything needs adjusting.

I've been doing this along time, and when i run bad for long periods I ALWAYS re-evalute my game, and I ALWAYS find things I could improve or watch for.

Re: When to move down
 

I will go back and look at some hhs to see if I am doing anything dumb and will also play less games...it is hard to go piss when you are in 10 games. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Also, it was 15 days, not 115 days....that would be crazy. Anyways, Over 6000 215s, I was at a nice 7% roi ( including the -5% 1000 game set...i'm not one to ignore sertain bad sets of games) and the only reason I changed anything was because I had to get money in a new party account BUT I could only put like 3k in the account each week, so I decided to start small, in the $55s, and work my way up. I told myself when I reached 20k in the account, I would go back to 215s, but this has been a minor setback. It is just really confusing to me how I can run fine for 15 days or so then lose everythinf I touch. Oh well...thanks for the replies. I appreciate it.

Re: When to move down
 

ok, I am understanding now. I thought the 1000 lossing 215's was just before the trouble at the 109's. 500 games with crappy results at the 109's is very likely just a bad run. I still recommend the same steps though. Anytime i get to the point that i'm saying "what the hell" I drop down in number of games and review just so I can assure myself that it's not me. When I KNOW it's not my play, I can weather the storm with less self-doubt. That lasts till I start doubting that I ever knew how to play, then I generally say [censored] it and go play limit for a while, where it's easy to know if i'm playing right cause there's 40 books on my shelf telling me.

Re: When to move down
 

It might be the Iriecurse. Since I agreed to take part in his ROI studies thingy, I get sucked out constantly. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: When to move down
 

The thing that nobody understands aboout your game is that you play SO much that you have runs that people would never usually have.

You wouldn't have them either if you played less and fewer tables, but this works for you and you make lots of money doing it (but you take big swings in the process because you are likely playing pretty low roi poker).

Unless theres something I don't know like some crazy step 5 run that didn't go well you have a huge bankroll still don't you?

I mean dropping down is so ridiculous that it's not even worth talking about unless things get a lot worse.

Just keep plugging away like you always do and youll start winning tons again soon.

Re: When to move down
 

My opinion is that the new time clock makes it close to impossible to play winning poker as high as the $109s with 10 tables.

I have been playing poker for 18 years and have always played fast. At this point in my life, most SNG decisions have been made a million times before and take less than 2 seconds. I would never time out 8+ tabling with the old time clock.

Now, I still almost never time out... but there are a few hands each evening where I don't have enough time to select the perfect raise amount.

If you are a marginal winner, you will become a loser if the time clock affects your decisions. And it has to be affecting you with 10 tables open.

Multi-tabling SNGs is more like speed chess than a video game. It's not about reflexes. It takes a beat to make the right decision. 10 beats will time you out of table 1.

My advice would be to 6-table the 109s for a set of 500 and see where you are. If you are a loser over that set, then your game must have some fundamental leaks in light of your past 1500 games. If you are a healthy winner... then you have likely found your problem.

Irieguy

Re: When to move down
 

I totally agree with Irie on this. I recently hit my first bad downswing, and it was after I had "gotten used to" 10-tabling. Some close analysis of my play revealed that I was missing lots of close but profitable pushes and generally had somewhat fallen into just waiting for decent hands around the bubble, which obviously sux0rs. I think I've found that 10 tables is just a little too much, but I don't feel rushed at all playing 8 tables. I only have two 2001FPs, so my right monitor had 6 tables with lots of overlap so I think that that probably hurt my concentration too. Just try scaling back to 8 tables for a bit and maybe post a couple of HHs to make sure you haven't lost the plot.

Re: When to move down
 

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I am losing a lot more hands than I am supposed to, I think, but I see no reason for this luck to change.

[/ QUOTE ]

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I guess i am just looking for advice about what to do.

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i HATE taking days off. I guess I am addicted to the game. I guess I really dont enjoy doing much, and that is obviously a problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

Start working out every morning right after you get up. Find some activity (non-poker related) you like and join a club. Take other measures if necessary. Grinding 10 tables all day, every day and missing out on life just ain't worth it, regardless of what your ROI is. Poker should be a means to enjoy life in a way a real job doesn't allow - it shouldn't be a reason/excuse to avoid/miss out on it.

Re: When to move down
 

i woke up realizing i kinda fumbled through this last night. What I'm really trying to say is this. Everybodies game needs work and can improve. If you can't get motivated to seriosly work on your game when you're getting your ass kicked, when will you? That's why asking the question "what the hell am I doing wrong" and searching for it is a good thing, even if the answer really is "nothin".

Re: When to move down
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not burnt out all and I am pretty damn sure I am making the right plays, I am just losing every hand I showdown, and I dont know how to deal with this. If I was playing like a moron, I know how to fix that. I miiight be pushing too much. I will probably slow down a little next time I play and not push as much. I have decided that when I get down to $10,000 in my party account, I am going to drop down to $55s. Right now, I am sitting around 12k and I had about 16k when I started losing. So, if I manage to drop 60 buyins, I will drop down. This sound reasonable to everyone? I guess I am just not used to losing for 5 days in a row. I know it doesnt sound like much, but it sucks when I WAS winning 1k a day for the previous 15 dys or so. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about...but if I do, I want to be prepared for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I had to guess, I'd say you probably aren't making the "right" plays as often as you think. Hell even when Im crushing the game, I don't believe that I'm always making the right plays.

Re: When to move down
 

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion is that the new time clock makes it close to impossible to play winning poker as high as the $109s with 10 tables.

I have been playing poker for 18 years and have always played fast. At this point in my life, most SNG decisions have been made a million times before and take less than 2 seconds. I would never time out 8+ tabling with the old time clock.

Now, I still almost never time out... but there are a few hands each evening where I don't have enough time to select the perfect raise amount.

If you are a marginal winner, you will become a loser if the time clock affects your decisions. And it has to be affecting you with 10 tables open.

Multi-tabling SNGs is more like speed chess than a video game. It's not about reflexes. It takes a beat to make the right decision. 10 beats will time you out of table 1.

My advice would be to 6-table the 109s for a set of 500 and see where you are. If you are a loser over that set, then your game must have some fundamental leaks in light of your past 1500 games. If you are a healthy winner... then you have likely found your problem.

Irieguy

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I agree that the new time clock is a problem. I bought 4 monitors with the idea of playing 16 games at once, but with the new time restrictions, I don't think its going to be possible for me. I'm satisfied with just sticking to 8 (which is still quite doable although a bit tougher).