Johnny Bax plays live too
 

1st 30 mins of the Foxwoods ME. 4 limpers and I limp with 74s on the button. SB completes and big blind raises 200 more (blinds 25/50). All call. Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Blinds check and JohnnyBax (Cliff Josephy in real life) bets 750 from UTG+2. I call, we both started the hand with 11-12k. All else fold. Turn is a black J. Bax bets 1450, I call. River is a black 2. Bax checks, I....

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

That was you? No comment then. I'll comment after

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

Its a PUSH (kidding, MLG tagline)

I check behind here with no kicker a lot. Just from how aggressively he played the flop and turn.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I'm pretty sure he raises JJ preflop here.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

Ohhhhh so you were the donkey-villain in that cardplayer update :P.

I don't know, his line can't be much other than a 7 I dont think. Maybe a missed draw that hit a jack or something will pay you off, but I doubt he has that.

Live, against a player like Cliff Josephy, I think I check behind. Online against a random donk I'd bet it.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I'm pretty sure too, I just think MLG is probably ahead, but it seems like an odd hand to post if he was.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

If he was drawing he missed and won't call.

If he has a higher 7 or a set, he is luring you in.

But if he has a jack or a pair, a bet can get more money into your stack.

I'd probably bet 2000 and clench and hope he doesn't raise me there, although part of me wants to check behind and see what he has.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
Its a PUSH



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Um you want to overbet push with trips, 4 kicker, in a deep stacked game?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

Having played endlessly with bax (and watched him a great deal) I think he has a seven also, but has a weak kicker. So, I think checking is in order.

edit- or maybe he has a decent kicker but is checking for pot control, w/e. I don't see you having the best hand here, or being called by a worse hand often.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

edit:

On P5's they wrote the board differently, i'm no longer shocked he didnt push.

--

As for your situation, i'm probably betting there everytime.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

stunned he didnt push? what hand calls a push on the river that he beats?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
stunned he didnt push? what hand calls a push on the river that he beats?

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edited.. the cardplayer board made it look like the 7 came on the river. Boh.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

first level against bax? please, easy check...

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
first level against bax? please, easy check...

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Exactly how does the fact thats its the first level make any difference whatsoever?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

In this hand if I call the turn, I will bet the river most times.

The bigger problem is the size of the bet IMO.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

delightful bet/fold situation. Throw 2k into the pot.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
delightful bet/fold situation. Throw 2k into the pot.

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Name some hands that pay him off.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

8s - 10s. Flop was draw heavy.

If Bax knows MLG. . .

Also 73 obviously. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

bax definitely knows me. we had dinner together durring the 2k event.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
first level against bax? please, easy check...

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Exactly how does the fact thats its the first level make any difference whatsoever?

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call me weak-tight, but i hold a vulnerable hand (even with the river check) and there's already 1160 BB's in the pot, so i don't feel the need to make the pot any larger...

so what was the outcome?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

So you think Bax doesn't open raise with those hands, then bets into 7 people with them on that board, then fires again on the turn?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

You're not going to hear the outcome here yet, he posted this like 20 minutes ago. If you try real hard you can find it on cardplayer.

The pot is not 50,000 btw.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I certainly don't think you open raise with these hands every time UTG+2.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

Of course not always, but when I don't I'm playing for set value. I definitely don't play 88 this fast if I limp it... And I dont think you do either, am I wrong?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're not going to hear the outcome here yet, he posted this like 20 minutes ago. If you try real hard you can find it on cardplayer.

The pot is not 50,000 btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, i meant 116 BB's (5800 pot)... thanks for the cardplayer heads-up...

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
So you think Bax doesn't open raise with those hands, then bets into 7 people with them on that board, then fires again on the turn?

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Also, if this is your thinking, then why call the flop or thr turn? I understand that you haven't advocated any part of MLG's play, but if you think Bax only takes this line with a hand stronger than what I mentioned, then fold the flop.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I should have said this in the opening post. There was a limper before Bax, either UTG, or UTG+1.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I guess it's possible that he has TT-88. He might limp with those in EP. I can't see him semi-bluffing with a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] draw into all of those people. AA-JJ don't make sense. 7x and 55 certainly do. Bottom line is I really don't see anything that he could have that will call any bet by the hero on the river (at least any of substance and I wouldn't want to make a small bet that get's raised). His 1/2 pot-sized bets on both the flop and turn definitely smell like a pretty big hand. I'd check behind.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

Why call the turn then?

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
1st 30 mins of the Foxwoods ME. 4 limpers and I limp with 74s on the button. SB completes and big blind raises 200 more (blinds 25/50). All call. Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Blinds check and JohnnyBax (Cliff Josephy in real life) bets 750 from UTG+2. I call, we both started the hand with 11-12k. All else fold. Turn is a black J. Bax bets 1450, I call. River is a black 2. Bax checks, I....

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I see absolutely no value in a bet. Give me one worse hand that Bax calls with here against you. I can't think of any. I think you see 87s/76s a lot here (he thinks he's good but knows he'll throw up if you raise him on the river, and doesn't see you calling with many hands). He could also partially be checking to see if you'll bet a missed draw or bluff on a fake slowplay. Etc etc. In any case I don't see you being ahead a ton here, and the times when you are ahead I don't see him calling a bet.

Everett

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're not going to hear the outcome here yet, he posted this like 20 minutes ago. If you try real hard you can find it on cardplayer.

The pot is not 50,000 btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, i meant 116 BB's (5800 pot)... thanks for the cardplayer heads-up...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure if the amount of big bets has any relevance in this hand though, it isn't limit.

Given I have no idea who Johnny Bax is, I'd still stick to a 2000 bet and fold if he raises, anything smaller will get raised, and anything bigger is giving away more chips to a hand that has you smoked.

I don't mind a check on the end either, if even only for future knowledge.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

And I also want to add that I have seen in deep stack big buy-in poker, people over limp bigger hands than 88-1010 in the early stages.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

MLG not making a bet on the river is because it will only get called by hands he is behind. That's very different than the decision MLG has on the turn. The villain could certainly make the turn bet with hands that MLG is ahead of (like TT-88). It's one of those situations that a bet will only be called when you don't want to be called, so why make it.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I'm posting blind here --

I think it's a check, or maybe a bet/fold. I just don't feel there's much value in a bet for you here -- I think he is limping w/ 87, 67, 97 kind of hands here and is 1) worried you have him beat and 2) he might put you on a busted draw and is inducing a bluff. Also for Johnny to bet in large field in a raised pot, I just have to think he is very strong here.

I suppose one hand that you have beat, that he might call a river bet here with, is 88-TT. The pot is pretty big already though, and I don't want to be faced w/ a river C/R (although this would mean you're beat probably 99.9% of the time.)

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're not going to hear the outcome here yet, he posted this like 20 minutes ago. If you try real hard you can find it on cardplayer.

The pot is not 50,000 btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, i meant 116 BB's (5800 pot)... thanks for the cardplayer heads-up...

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure if the amount of big bets has any relevance in this hand though, it isn't limit.

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just my way of saying that this pot doesn't need a sweetener on the end... value-betting a pot of this size requires risking a significant % of your chips (if this pot was around 1000-1500, it wouldn't be nearly as dangerous)...

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're not going to hear the outcome here yet, he posted this like 20 minutes ago. If you try real hard you can find it on cardplayer.

The pot is not 50,000 btw.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, i meant 116 BB's (5800 pot)... thanks for the cardplayer heads-up...

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure if the amount of big bets has any relevance in this hand though, it isn't limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

just my way of saying that this pot doesn't need a sweetener on the end... value-betting a pot of this size requires risking a significant % of your chips (if this pot was around 1000-1500, it wouldn't be nearly as dangerous)...

[/ QUOTE ]

I can agree with checking because someone might be slowplaying and we are real behind, and not many hands will call a bet that we have beat right now.

But I can't see the argument of missing a value bet simply because the pot is already large.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

Given the fact that you are posting this now, I think you should have checked behind.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

well, that and our phone conversation.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

I think Bax can have a big draw possibly. I realize it's contradictory to say to call flop and turn, and not bet the river because Bax can't have a worse hand, but it doesn't change the fact that I can't see him getting called by a worse hand.

Re: Johnny Bax plays live too
 

You think he'd lead out even with a big draw in a raised flop into like 5 people?