$55: KQo OOP
 

Villain is terrible. The bad, unpredictable, any 2 cards type of terrible. He got his stack from being super lucky, and I noted it.

Lots of $55 players are terrible (not a big revelation, I know), so I've been working on value-lines with hands such as the one below.

Let's work on this one:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button (t2770)
downtown (t985)
BB (t815)
UTG (t1920)
UTG+1 (t1105)
MP1 (t1215)
MP2 (t180)
MP3 (t975)
CO (t35)

Preflop: downtown is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">6 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t30</font>, downtown calls t20, BB calls t15.

Flop: (t90) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
downtown checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t60</font>, <font color="#CC3333">downtown raises to t180</font>, BB folds, Button calls t120.

Turn: (t450) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">downtown bets t225</font>, Button calls t225.

River: (t900) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
downtown checks, planning on calling.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

If he's as bad as you say, why didn't you put more pressure on him on the turn?

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

Even terrible players can pick up a hand, and he raised pre-flop. Why are you throwing chips at this marginal hand?

I'd play it much slower... but if you had a read, I can't really fault you for going with it. I'd just rather find a better spot.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

Hmmmm. On the river, I assume you think you're ahead here, if so, you have two considerations.

If you value bet, do you think you'll get a call?
If you check, do you think he will hang himself?

If you don't think he'd call a river value bet, then I think a check is correct.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
Even terrible players can pick up a hand, and he raised pre-flop. Why are you throwing chips at this marginal hand?

I'd play it much slower... but if you had a read, I can't really fault you for going with it. I'd just rather find a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, he minraised after it was folded to him on the button. He could have anything here.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

I value bet the river. I think you are ahead.

See you at the tables [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even terrible players can pick up a hand, and he raised pre-flop. Why are you throwing chips at this marginal hand?

I'd play it much slower... but if you had a read, I can't really fault you for going with it. I'd just rather find a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, he minraised after it was folded to him on the button. He could have anything here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like AK or KJ or J2 or 22 or K2 or JJ or AA or any two spades, for example?

Oh, and a bunch of combinations with the 6 as well. Forgot about those.

I still think it's marginal, but whatever.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even terrible players can pick up a hand, and he raised pre-flop. Why are you throwing chips at this marginal hand?

I'd play it much slower... but if you had a read, I can't really fault you for going with it. I'd just rather find a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, he minraised after it was folded to him on the button. He could have anything here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like AK or KJ or J2 or 22 or K2 or JJ or AA or any two spades, for example?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um. Yes. Like any of those hands. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You fold. Next hand you pick up KK. Once again, villain min-raises.

OMG HE COULD HAVE AA BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY HAND THAT BEATS US!!!!

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even terrible players can pick up a hand, and he raised pre-flop. Why are you throwing chips at this marginal hand?

I'd play it much slower... but if you had a read, I can't really fault you for going with it. I'd just rather find a better spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, he minraised after it was folded to him on the button. He could have anything here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like AK or KJ or J2 or 22 or K2 or JJ or AA or any two spades, for example?

[/ QUOTE ]

Um. Yes. Like any of those hands. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

You fold. Next hand you pick up KK. Once again, villain min-raises.

OMG HE COULD HAVE AA BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY HAND THAT BEATS US!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that follows. Great post. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I still see little reason to play this so fast. I'm done.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

It does follow. You basically just listed off the hands that could beat us. Do I really need to list off the hands that we beat? Because I don't have time for that. You have top pair solid kicker against a moron who minraised from the button. If you're going to fold anytime you don't flop the nuts against guys like this, so be it. But you're missing out on a lot of value.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]
It does follow. You basically just listed off the hands that could beat us. Do I really need to list off the hands that we beat? Because I don't have time for that. You have top pair solid kicker against a moron who minraised from the button. If you're going to fold anytime you don't flop the nuts against guys like this, so be it. But you're missing out on a lot of value.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kyro beat to this punch and I agree...OP gave his read and I thinks its solid to enough to say that this type of player will also play all of those hands we are ahead of very similarly. He might lose this hand, but overall I think extracting value is the way to go with this hand.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

I like your line quite a bit and would likely take it in a vacuum. Nice hand.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

I like the line too. I tend to play check-call instead of sudden reversal against these types of players who are aggro wildcard players.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

[ QUOTE ]

If he's as bad as you say, why didn't you put more pressure on him on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

kyro,
I didn't want to lose him, but I did want to extract value. I would be open to a line that bet more on the turn, but I think that leaves me with an all-in no matter what on the river, and I think as this hand played with the call on the turn, I could have found a fold if a 4th spade came on the river, correctly or not I don't know.

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't think he'd call a river value bet, then I think a check is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Scuba Chuck,
I agree, and that's the reason I checked here (thought he'd only call if I was beat, which may have been a mistake in retrospect); it's often hard to get these specific reads early on. Also a river check after my previous action (1/2 pot bet) appears weak, and I thought I may induce a bluff.

pineapple888,
I feel your frustration, so if it helps, assume you were playing this hand against a slightly below average loose $11 player who accidentally bought into a $55. He's not good. I think there is real value in chip extraction with these types of hands in these types of situations, though I appreciate your dissent and point of view.

Re: $55: KQo OOP
 

I think you played the hand great. Anyone who says anything about "fold preflop" or some nonsense really needs to examine their game.