K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

Morongo $2/$5, $300 cap, 8- or 9-handed

I have the table covered with about $750.

Two limps ($150 and $125), I limp in MP with K9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], another limp ($500), then somone raises to $25 ($300), one LP cold-caller ($550), BB calls (??), two limpers call, I call, and limper after me calls.

Flop ~$175: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

BB checks, EP1 bets $50, EP2 calls, I ???

I'm assuming everyone here raises this. Given the stack sizes and action, what would you raise to? EP1 had $75 left and EP2 has $50.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

I think I would ask for a count from BB. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

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I think I would ask for a count from BB. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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i can't even remember his face, but i know there was a body in that spot.

he probably had $300 and didn't stick out as either someone who had won a pot or as a short-stack donk.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

I'd put them both in. With the pot as it is, they are getting odds to call any sized bet or re-raise. Make them pay to see that turn and river.

Ed S.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

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I'd put them both in. With the pot as it is, they are getting odds to call any sized bet or re-raise. Make them pay to see that turn and river.

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how about the 4 people yet to act behind me? just raising to cover the better and caller could give a decent price to any of the deeper stacks that may be interested in the hand.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

The tough part is that the pfr is still to act behind you, can you count on a raise from this player? If not, you might as well set her all-in. The pot is now $275, and you probably want to raise that much. A higher pair has outs to half or all of the pot, so a cheap card for any player behind you is mucho dangerous for you. You will lose to AK no matter what, so just protect against whatever you can. I think a raise to $200-$300 is appropriate here.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

I'm sorry , totally forgot about the rest of the table.

I'd make it 200 all day and see what happens from there.


Ed S.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

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The tough part is that the pfr is still to act behind you, can you count on a raise from this player? If not, you might as well set her all-in. The pot is now $275, and you probably want to raise that much. A higher pair has outs to half or all of the pot, so a cheap card for any player behind you is mucho dangerous for you. You will lose to AK no matter what, so just protect against whatever you can. I think a raise to $200-$300 is appropriate here.

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say I raise to $300, what if the PFR pushes behind me? what if someone else does?

what's my plan for a blank turn if the PFR calls my flop raise? how about for paint or [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn?

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

If you want to commit to this hand at all, I think you have to push (any decent raise will leave you with an ackward amount compared to other stacks and pot size, especially if a straight card, a diamond or a board pairing card falls (that's a lot of cards). Don't give any decent odds to a megadraw, a set or AA-KK. You can't be afraid of AK, because if you are there's only one answer: fold preflop [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] i.e. don't invest with a hand that, if flopped hard, you'll fold anyway. I'm not questioning the PF call, but if you make it and flop that nice, you're jamming it.



edit: if you are pretty sure someone will raise if you call that bet, you can call and reraise all-in. Or push a turn brick if the flop is not raised.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

i pushed, the guy next to me folded (he said later that he had QT), PFR folds, Button calls $550 and is all-in (!!), BB folds, and both short-stacks call.

Turn bricks, river is another Q. Button shows 98 for the low end, and the two short-stacks both had flush draws. Button was confused when the pot started to get pushed my way...he thought there was no way any hand that beats him pushes the flop.

I still don't know if the push was good though...honestly, i was just trying to push everyone else out and get in with the two short-stacks. I never expected to get called by anyone else. Does anyone like button's call?

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

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say I raise to $300, what if the PFR pushes behind me? what if someone else does?

what's my plan for a blank turn if the PFR calls my flop raise? how about for paint or [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] turn?

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PFR cannot push behind you, as $300 sets her all-in. If someone else pushes behind you, you have to call and lose to AK or stack a set. I think the cold caller cold calling the flop would worry me the most here. I would then push any non-diamond turn. If you have an amazing read that will enable you to fold to a push on the flop, then raise instead to somewhere around $225-$250, and still push a non-diamond turn.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

no i dont like the buttons call at all with 3 people behind him. he needs to realize that you already made a big bet and there are short stacks that will most likely get in the hand with the amount of odds here. also with many people in the hand even if his straight is best at the point it may be wise to give it up because he is behind to 3 people in the pot.. say flush draw, 2 pair, and set not of the 2 pair cards. hes 41% with all these hands in there so it may be wise to lay it down knowing that there are 2 other hands also that have him beat at this point. good bet

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

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Does anyone like button's call?


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In her spot, the clock gets put on me, times out, and the dealer forces me to fold. I don't like calling in her spot.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

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Does anyone like button's call?

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Preflop - I like her call preflop better then yours.
Postflop- I like your play better then hers. If there's a lot of action, you quickly learn why its the donkey end of the straight.

I really advocate a fold on your hand preflop. You'll rarely be drawing to the nuts. With that hand, you really want a flush. You had the perfect straight for your hand... and you couldn't feel great about it because its beaten by the one card everyone raises with... AK.

This is one of those hands where you hit great and AK wasn't there so it feels great. But if I was in the hand and AK was there... I'd feel pretty dumb since its such a strong possibility.

Re: K9s flops book-end straight in raised family pot
 

I would have folded preflop for $5, then I would have folded to the $25 raise.

On the flop I would call and wait to see that the preflop raiser doesn't raise, with something he is likely to have, for example that has you dominated like AK. If the preflop raiser raises I would fold. Yes, sometimes you fold the winner if he raises here with other likely holdings AA, KK, QQ, JJ ...

If it gets called around an an innocuous nonpair nonflush card comes, then I would look to get the money in there. But, basically you have a drawing hand here with the second nuts with so many people in that you are drawing to no diamond, no king, no flush card, and probably a non-paired board. I think pushing the money in on the flop is just going to get you called in multiple places anyway and would look for a better spot.