Would you drop bottom set?
 

NL 10-20.

Me: 2k
SB: 2.5k, LAG, knows how to play and is extremely aggressive -- too aggressive for optimal $$$ though.
BB: 2k, seeming TAG. I had seen him show one hand so far, and the hand was as advertised. He seems to play reasonably tightly.
MP: 1k

I limped w/5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], MP called, MP+1 called. SB raised to 100, BB called, I called, MP called, MP+1 folded.

Flop: [J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]

SB bet pot (~$430). SB went all-in.

Call or fold here, and was it close?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Joke right?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

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Joke right?

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Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

In this situation your opponent probably has an overpair probably. You have to call because this is what you are looking for. I have folded sets before, but not in this type of situation.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Easy fold. Only play Royal Flushes against lags.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

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SB bet pot (~$430). SB went all-in.

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I dont get it

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

I think you mean BB went all in. And no, I wouldn't fold.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

ah-ha. i get it now. it's YOU giving women that weak-tight stereotype.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

who is the LAG?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

everyone that is mocking jen should be shot and clearly hasnt read the archives.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

i think the problem here is its such a close decision

it ISNT an overpair bb is pushing with so its either a flush draw/pair/over combo or youre toast

considering the bbs image i actually might, i cant believe im saying this, lay this one down

also, the people posting thus far in this thread should not be allowed to procreate until they redeem themselves, no offense, but jen is old school and should get a little respect

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

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i think the problem here is its such a close decision

it ISNT an overpair bb is pushing with so its either a flush draw/pair/over combo or youre toast

considering the bbs image i actually might, i cant believe im saying this, lay this one down

also, the people posting thus far in this thread should not be allowed to procreate until they redeem themselves, no offense, but jen is old school and should get a little respect

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getting respect for being "old school" is BS.

instacall/push.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

did you read the background info AT ALL?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

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did you read the background info AT ALL?

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nope, I dont need to. Giving her respect for old deeds is totally different from giving her respect for being old school

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Instacall, of course. I imagine you called and lost to 99?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

jens image should probably be taken into account also

el d im a little surprised?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

without looking at the action, 55 on a 59J flush draw board? ALL IN. looking at the action, 5x BB raise preflop, ALL IN. PFR bets pot, pot is 900 and next guy raises 1100 more, ALL IN.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

fine then there is no room to ever fold bottom set unless you have 500bbs behind!

this is bs, ive KNOWN i was beat before with bottom set and i didnt lay it down because of this garbage concrete mindset

sorry im just not getting ANY reasoning behind hand ranges and why you need to put it in here

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

So SB raises preflop with a big pair. BB calls with JhTh/AhKh /6h7h. SB leads, BB pushes naturally, we instacall.

There is 6 possible ways to hold a higher set here, and we have JThh,AKhh,QThh,67hh,T8hh,87hh plus a bunch of other big draws. BB may even have AA, trapping SB. Why do you wanna fold here so bad?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

[ QUOTE ]
jens image should probably be taken into account also

el d im a little surprised?

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Surprised at what? That I responded to jen's post? I agree it is a trivial situation that doesn't merit discussion. I just responded cuz I know her.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

this hand range doesnt accurately fit the bb's play style as given by jen, sure its possible but those arent the most likely hands, its either a set or a nut flush/combo draw imo

this seems similar to a way behind or slightly ahead situation

of course set over set is uncommon but this action is sick, and the player is TAG and plays straightforwardly, and jen is yet to act and has a tight as hell image

where am i wrong here?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

this is straightforward play for a TAG w/ a big draw. I wouldnt give a limping tight player any respect either.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

It all comes down to what hands you think the TAG would call a $100 raise with from the LAG (and not reraise) and then come over the top all in with 2 players behind after the flop. Would he make this play with AJ? With a draw? The most likely holdings are JJ or 99, you are getting not quite 2 - 1, is he more than twice as likely to have a set than the other hands mentioned? Then fold, otherwise call. My experience with good TAG's and this flop and this many players is he has a set. Would he call a 5xBB raise in a multi way pot out of position with AJ? AKh is a possibility, but there is 1 way to make this hand versus 6 for JJ and 6 for 99.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

"SB bet pot (~$430). SB went all-in."

Oops, I meant BB went all-in.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

"who is the LAG?"

SB - not the guy who went all-in. Sorry, I wasn't clear in my original post.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

"i think the problem here is its such a close decision"

I think so also, and given the 10 secs or so to think didn't help (the down-side of multi-tabling).

"it ISNT an overpair bb is pushing with so its either a flush draw/pair/over combo or youre toast"

Yes, I agree here too.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Thanks... tough crowd. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

"el d im a little surprised?"

Yes, he knows me. But he never agrees with me; check the archives...

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

[ QUOTE ]
"el d im a little surprised?"

Yes, he knows me. But he never agrees with me; check the archives...

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You never agree with Diablo? You must be pretty bad.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

"Why do you wanna fold here so bad?"

I didn't.

"So SB raises preflop with a big pair. BB calls with JhTh/AhKh /6h7h. SB leads, BB pushes naturally, we instacall.

There is 6 possible ways to hold a higher set here, and we have JThh,AKhh,QThh,67hh,T8hh,87hh plus a bunch of other big draws. BB may even have AA, trapping SB."

I didn't think his preflop hand selection was that wide; nor did I think he would have flat-called preflop with what would have been an overpair in that spot.

Of course, I could be wrong, since I had only seen him play a limited number of hands.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Probably. But, I'm not hurting for $$$.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

"The most likely holdings are JJ or 99, you are getting not quite 2 - 1, is he more than twice as likely to have a set than the other hands mentioned?"

He should have been significantly more than 2x as likely to have a draw in order for me to call since when he's drawing the odds would be similar, and when it's set-over-set, I'm a huge dog.

"My experience with good TAG's and this flop and this many players is he has a set."

Me too. But given my lack of extensive playing experience with this guy, I was wondering what others on this board thought.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

I would take a second to push the slider all the way to the right and click "All In". I very rarely drop a set w 100BBs in a PF raised pot. BB could be pushing a range of hands here: 89s, T9s, 67s, 78s, J9, and also JJ and 99.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Against a pre-flop raiser I call instantly.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

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Against a pre-flop raiser I call instantly.

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But in this case the pre flop raiser bet the pot and the TAG caller went all in over the top! Would you then call with bottom set, given the texture of the flop and TAG's image who pushed? What hands does he flat call a 5XBB raise that he comes over the top all in on the flop?

The funny thing is I have called in this position before and I was third best as it was set over set over set!! Anything can happen, we are making decisions under uncertainty, but given the likelihood of various holdings and the pot odds I would say calling is a negative EV play in this scenario.

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

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Instacall, of course. I imagine you called and lost to 99?

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Were those the results?

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

jen there is NOONE like you on this board anymore imo, i guess theres one playing that is more rocklike in the high stakes posters but even he is criticised for being easily readable and being pushed around by the agg UB players

btw, i play fairly loose and extremely aggressively, but i think being able to make huge laydowns, when its apparent im beat but im against folding a particular hand, more often would really help my game, so i try to think of things from that angle

i dont think the results matter here, the hand range and the odds are what matters

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

must be a joke. nothing to think about

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

Oh... I just read further. BB moved in... that changes things.

Call [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

100 BB you're not deep enough really. Just call. This is why we have $30K rolls for $10/20 nl, not $4000

Re: Would you drop bottom set?
 

making huge laydowns as a extremely aggressive player is not a good idea