river
 

canterbury 15/30 9 handed
I am running bad. villain here is very aggro (he 3bet an EP raise from me earlier with 66.) I have never played with him before, but he does have his shirt open to reveal a gold chain and a hairy chest, which I enjoy.

I raise J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG, folds to villain in MP who 3 bets, rest fold, I make it 4 bets, he calls.

Flop HU: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
bet, he calls.

Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
bet, he calls

river: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

my line please.

Re: river
 

hmm... very aggro. wouldn't he find a raise with a flush draw on the flop or more likely the turn? maybe he wants to see the showdown with a pair, i think i would bet river and win

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmm... very aggro. wouldn't he find a raise with a flush draw on the flop or more likely the turn? maybe he wants to see the showdown with a pair, i think i would bet river and win

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds about right to me.

Rob

Re: river
 

I like a check/call here. If he has AK or AQ he isn't going to pay off our river bet anyways so the check behind doesn't cost us. It may induce him to bet a smaller pocket pair for value as our hand looks like an AK. If we fire again at the river he may fold that same smaller pocketpair. If were behind and he's waiting for the to bump his AA or set we don't have to pay off 2 bets.

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
hmm... very aggro. wouldn't he find a raise with a flush draw on the flop or more likely the turn? maybe he wants to see the showdown with a pair, i think i would bet river and win

[/ QUOTE ]

hmm on the other hand if he is so aggressive maybe check and let him bet the river. he will probably bet a [censored]-ton of hands that he wouldn't call with.

yes, i just quoted myself

Re: river
 

looks like a c/c to me for the standard reasons. I was actually kicking around the idea of a c/r, but I'm pretty sure this is a bad idea.

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm... very aggro. wouldn't he find a raise with a flush draw on the flop or more likely the turn? maybe he wants to see the showdown with a pair, i think i would bet river and win

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds about right to me.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with both quotes, I would bet the river hoping some pair will call, I wouldnt want to give him the chance to check a worse hand down, and If he raises the river I would feel very comfortable calling. I can see a good argument for check/calling if the villain will bet more hands then he will call with on this river, but I am not convinced the villain matches this description despite his aggressive tendencies.

Re: river
 

Um, bet!??!?

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like a check/call here. If he has AK or AQ he isn't going to pay off our river bet anyways so the check behind doesn't cost us. It may induce him to bet a smaller pocket pair for value as our hand looks like an AK. If we fire again at the river he may fold that same smaller pocketpair. If were behind and he's waiting for the to bump his AA or set we don't have to pay off 2 bets.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he will call river if he called turn w/ AK. Unless he is real bad I dont think he would try to bet w/ A high and I dont think that him betting w/ smaller pair could ever make up for the times he checks behind w/ A high or smaller pp.

I like bet/call. Read not good enough for bet/fold, and he has not shown enough aggression to check river.

River action
 

[ QUOTE ]
canterbury 15/30 9 handed
I am running bad. villain here is very aggro (he 3bet an EP raise from me earlier with 66.) I have never played with him before, but he does have his shirt open to reveal a gold chain and a hairy chest, which I enjoy.

I raise J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG, folds to villain in MP who 3 bets, rest fold, I make it 4 bets, he calls.

Flop HU: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
bet, he calls.

Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
bet, he calls

river: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

my line please.

[/ QUOTE ]

I bet, he raises.....can I call here and be good often enough to make calling correct?

Re: River action
 

well you prolly lost to 33 or a5 but dont be results orientated you played the hand well, its a no brainer river bet against a guy who doesnt play well and prolly will call with ak and maybe aq and when he raises i would be shocked most of the time if jj wasnt good. But I think he might have nothing a lot so 3 betting prolly isnt worth it. Bet/call. Standard

Re: River action
 

[ QUOTE ]
well you prolly lost to 33 or a5 but dont be results orientated you played the hand well, its a no brainer river bet against a guy who doesnt play well and prolly will call with ak and maybe aq and when he raises i would be shocked most of the time if jj wasnt good. But I think he might have nothing a lot so 3 betting prolly isnt worth it. Bet/call. Standard

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Did you read the board? [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Re: river
 

gotta be a check-call really, hasn't it? he's going to bluff far more hands than he'll call on this river and it avoids the situation of being pushed off ur hand on the river if u simply bet out, and u get to see a showdown when he bluffs into u so u gain some more player info on him, and if u play with this player a lot it might be useful.

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
I have never played with him before, but he does have his shirt open to reveal a gold chain and a hairy chest, which I enjoy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely awesome.

I'd bet/call the river.

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
villain here is very aggro (he 3bet an EP raise from me earlier with 66.) I have never played with him before, but he does have his shirt open to reveal a gold chain and a hairy chest, which I enjoy.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hairy chest no, the raise sometimes and the chain for 29 years, yeah. But I've never been to MN and probably never will be. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Against this type of opponent, I think sometimes checking that river isn't that bad. It seems like any time you take your foot off the accelerator with a good hand it's weak tight, regardless of the situation.

With marginal hands that are easily released it's always an easy bet. But with better hands you'll pay off with, I think it's ok sometimes to take a breath, give him some rope for a chance at the lead and see what he's been calling and maybe riding you with.

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hmm... very aggro. wouldn't he find a raise with a flush draw on the flop or more likely the turn? maybe he wants to see the showdown with a pair, i think i would bet river and win

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds about right to me.


[/ QUOTE ]
I was thinking along these lines as well, value bet IMHO.
Did you get his number later so you can check out his "gold chain" in person later?

Re: river
 

I think you're usually losing here. But a player like you're describing is not above bluff-raising your 'obvious' big ace hand.

There's enough in the pot to look him up, and remember what he looked like when he raised so you can be more accurate in your river play in the future.

Bet/call.

Re: River action
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
well you prolly lost to 33 or a5 but dont be results orientated you played the hand well, its a no brainer river bet against a guy who doesnt play well and prolly will call with ak and maybe aq and when he raises i would be shocked most of the time if jj wasnt good. But I think he might have nothing a lot so 3 betting prolly isnt worth it. Bet/call. Standard

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Did you read the board? [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


yes

Re: River action
 

Def a call. Could be something like AK/AQ with A of diamonds bluffing hoping you'll fold a pair. I can't see someone that aggro not raising the flop or turn with a huge draw.

Re: river
 

I'd check call this river, and hope villain bets at it with AK, because he wasnt calling a bet most likely, so, let him bet it and just call. Also, IMO this looks like AK or QQ here, most likely AK.

Re: River action
 

[ QUOTE ]
Def a call. Could be something like AK/AQ with A of diamonds bluffing hoping you'll fold a pair. I can't see someone that aggro not raising the flop or turn with a huge draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I 4bet preflop and he slowed down. IMO if he raises on a draw on that board, he KNOWS I am popping him back.

Re: river
 

I am check/calling here 90+% of the time.

results orientation
 

canterbury 15/30 9 handed
I am running bad. villain here is very aggro (he 3bet an EP raise from me earlier with 66.) I have never played with him before, but he does have his shirt open to reveal a gold chain and a hairy chest, which I enjoy.

I raise J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG, folds to villain in MP who 3 bets, rest fold, I make it 4 bets, he calls.

Flop HU: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
bet, he calls.

Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
bet, he calls

river: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I bet, he raised, I said "[censored]" rather loud (as i am in a 200BB live downswing and it is rattling me) and called without thinking. He had A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I KNEW I was beat, yet I called. Maybe I am being results oriented, but I cannot see anything I beat calling here. Isn't it better to check and let AK, 88-77 or maybe even AQ bet out? Please set me straight, as everthing is upside down now.

Re: river
 

Bet. If the dude is aggro he probably would've raised a flush draw on the flop. Only reason I see to check is to attempt to induce a bluff, but he's probably calling you down with a worse pocket pair and will call your river bet.

Re: river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Bet. If the dude is aggro he probably would've raised a flush draw on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't see this. I 4-bet preflop. IMO he knows a free card isn't happening.

Re: results orientation
 

this is an easy value bet on the river. but i think you can fold to the river raise.

Re: River action
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Did you read the board? [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]


yes

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read the board and are considering a 3-bet on the river, you are either a serious donkey or play with serious donkeys that would raise and call a 3-bet with a hand Bob beats.