River bet - value or spewing?
 

I have been trying to extract more value on the river, but this one felt a little on the edge to me. Villain had just arrived, but I had the sense he was playing too many hands.

7 Card Stud High ($5/$10), Ante $0.50, Bring-In $2 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___completes___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls

4th Street - (5.80 SB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (3.90 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises

6th Street - (7.90 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (9.90 BB)

Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] xx___calls

Total pot: (11.90 BB)

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Looks fine to me - two pair looks the most likely hand on fifth, so you should be ahead more often than not. I might well end up check/calling, but I miss too many bets when he checks behind with two small pair.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

I may be wrong, but I would bet 6th & keep him on the guess rather than showing the weakness. As it is, I would definately bet the river to keep him from checking behind & would feel ok about calling a raise. He will not expect you to have this good of a hand after your 6th st. check.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Looks fine to me.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Spewing? Whats plan B, check and call? Ugh.

Bet

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Looks good to me. I’d say he has either a big buried pair or small two pairs on 5th, most likely. Since you can’t be sure what he’ll do with two small pairs (and because he might have you crushed of course) risking 2-1 on a check-raise attempt doesn’t look that attractive.

I’m not sure I like 3rd though. What did you think seat 2 completed with? You probably knew something I don’t know though, given that he folded. Against an opponent with reasonable standards I kinda like a fold here though.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Nice hand. Surprised the other guy folded on third. I like the hand, but think you walked right into a raise on fifth.

The river is played perfectly imo. If he hit aces up, he's probably not raising.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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think you walked right into a raise on fifth.

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Why?

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Looks good. The river was played perfectly here by you, Stream. Far too many people check-raise or check-call rather than betting right out like they should. I will admit however that I fold third myself and that I think its right to do so. Keep in mind that two live overcards loom large behind you and there is a raise already to you. How would you like it if that Ace or Queen made it $15 on you? Now its kinda hard to fold isnt it? Its not like you completed to $5 and they made it $10 letting you muck without thought.......Glad it turned out well but just fold third next time.

Mike Emery

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

Yeah I agree with Mike, you have to fold 3rd here, not only might you get re-raised by an overcard behind you, but the original raiser probably has you beat too. This is a really expensive mistake to make. The rest looks ok though.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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think you walked right into a raise on fifth.

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Why?

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What do you think he called $8 with on 3rd?

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

He may have walked into a raise on 5th, but I'd still prefer betting here because it gives you more information. You know now that tens are not going to be good so you wont have to pay off a bet on the end. It becomes quite clear that he has a big pair in the hole here, probably aces.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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He may have walked into a raise on 5th, but I'd still prefer betting here because it gives you more information. You know now that tens are not going to be good so you wont have to pay off a bet on the end. It becomes quite clear that he has a big pair in the hole here, probably aces.

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I agree. You're totally right. I need to learn to make this fold on the river.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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What do you think he called $8 with on 3rd?

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Stream did you villain was a bit loose. And I’m sure you’ve seen people call here with all sorts of hands - 2A2, 3-flushes, mid pairs, A32, right down to AK2o. Hell, you’ve called me with crap like that yourself, just to lay a beat on me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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I’m not sure I like 3rd though. What did you think seat 2 completed with? You probably knew something I don’t know though, given that he folded.

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I admit the third street play is really on the edge, and I came real close to folding. Regarding seat 2, my only read was that I have seen him make poor decisions in the past and complete in marginal circumstances. Here he was completing into a live ace and queen. I am not totally sure why, but I thought there was a reasonable chance he was on an ill-advised early steal. So I decided to over-represent my hand in this case, and use his bad decision to put pressure on the ace and queen. Note that the queen had to act first. If he had queens, he has to seriously consider folding given what the two maniacs in front of him just did, and that a live ace has yet to act. So I thought that I might only be in real trouble if the ace had another one to go with his door.

If either the ace or queen raised, then I was going to fold, unless it ended up heads up. On the other hand, if either of them had a small pair with an overcard kicker, I figured the raise would drive them out, and I would be content to play the hand afterwards. I think this hand helped my table image a bit - I got nice action after this when I started with hands like aces or kings.

I agree with the general sentiment on third though - I fold here most of the time.

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

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given what the two maniacs in front of him just did

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: River bet - value or spewing?
 

egads, you play scary good. I like 3rd as a change up, as long as you are ready to jump right off if you get three-bet (or take one off heads up, but out on fifth unimproved). As long as you don't get tied on when plays like this don't work, they are fine when worked in sparingly IMHO. The raise on fifth just screams out overpair in the pocket, the most likely is JJ based on the Q, A and Ks you've seen. So kings up is likely good here. When it's not, you won't get raised unless he makes trips or the read is wrong. But I see so many players do this wait to fifth thing. If I was the bring in here I make it three to go right there on third with my big pocket pair, and keep leading if checked to as long as your board isn't scary, taking a free one on the river if I don't improve and am still last to act.

RESULT - mrbaa nails it
 

Villain rivered a four and ended up with jacks up. He played the jacks exactly as called by mrbaa.