I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

I play NL tourneys twice a week with really good players. I manage to do quite well in these games. Buy-ins range from $50-$200. Over the past 3 months however, I have been playing with a new group on the weekends, mixed soccer moms and dads from my kids’ soccer teams. It’s meant to be for fun cause the buy-ins are only $10 and there is a lot of drinking and socializing going on. 15-30 people usually play so the winner is taking home $80- $150.

At first it was hard playing with these passive calling machines but after I figured out their game I have won 1st or 2nd 7 out of the last 10 times. The last game my wife played with us, (she never ever plays) and managed to take 2nd with one hour worth of lessons. (I took 1st) These are good people who are absolutely horrible poker players.

During our last soccer game, I overheard some of the parents talking and complaining about me winning again. I was not invited to the last tournament but they said it was because the thought I was out of town. I am going to next weeks game however and would like your opinions.

My wife says I should throw the game and let some one else win, not even finish in the top 5 she says. Variance will eventually let them win more I explained, but she says to take a dive anyways. Sort of takes the fun out of it for me, so what should I do? :confused:

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Take a dive, then encourage a higher buyin for the next game/week/whatever. Call the lost buyin an investment in the future.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Take some oreos and fake a bad Russian accent.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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Take a dive, then encourage a higher buyin for the next game/week/whatever. Call the lost buyin an investment in the future.

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I pretty much agree - except that you shouldn't take a TOTAL dive. Instead of applying your proven 'beat this game' strategy. Simply expirement w/other strategies or tactics. Push where you might not have, see how they respond, etc...

Now you're investing in a) you're welcome there
and b) Poker experiences/skills/tools

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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Take a dive, then encourage a higher buyin for the next game/week/whatever. Call the lost buyin an investment in the future.

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I pretty much agree - except that you shouldn't take a TOTAL dive. Instead of applying your proven 'beat this game' strategy. Simply expirement w/other strategies or tactics. Push where you might not have, see how they respond, etc...

Now you're investing in a) you're welcome there
and b) Poker experiences/skills/tools

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True. If he has to purposely lose, though... far better to do it on the bubble than so early that it's obvious.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Depends on what you care about.

If you want to do it socially and feel they aren't happy that you always win, then throw the game by just being insanely aggressive.

If you want to play your best, go to a different game, this won't ever offer it to you.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

bring a lot of drinks and snacks, and throw the tourney while being extra sociable.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Sounds like they're being kind of petty about the whole thing. I'd rather not go than go and donate.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I pretty much agree - except that you shouldn't take a TOTAL dive. Instead of applying your proven 'beat this game' strategy. Simply expirement w/other strategies or tactics. Push where you might not have, see how they respond, etc...

Now you're investing in a) you're welcome there
and b) Poker experiences/skills/tools

[/ QUOTE ]
Ill try this and see how it goes. I like the thinking here, cheap poker schooling 101.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Play the game but play to socialize. Congratulations are in order for each hand they win. Make them feel good about loosing.

Ugly girls have lots of pretty friends. Be very nice with the ugly girls and do not use them and you will get dates with the good looking girls. Be nice to this game.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Ok buc fan the real question would be are we going to win today? go Bucs!!!

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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Ugly girls have lots of pretty friends. Be very nice with the ugly girls and do not use them and you will get dates with the good looking girls. Be nice to this game.

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My wife says ....

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I'd rather just sit at home than throw a tourney

But I'd much rather dominate a tourney than sit at home [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Just play your best, get sucked out on (because that's what will happen when you try to win), and laugh about it

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Change up your game a little. Think of this as a chance to experiemt with different strategies. The next couple of tourneys try Skalany's push/fold strategy.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

If there's someone there who seems remotely interested in learning, teach them and have them win just so it isn't always you.

Throw a nice party for the soccer team with your winnings.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Feel out a few of the parents who you think would open up and talk about it. Ask if you have done anything to offend anybody and so on. Tell them your aware your winning alot but short of throwing the game ask them what you can do?

Myself, I think theres abit of sour grapes going on. To not call someone because they win, well I could understand that happening in preschool, but an adult game?

Don't throw the game, talk the problem out, ask them what they expect you to do? Sounds like it may be just a few of the parents behind this.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

i totally agree with you David, unlike adults like these, esp at a $10 tourni to act in such a childish way. For absolutly no reason should you have to throw a tourni becuase they are jelous of your skill. If they dont want you to win, recommend them to some good books(SSH - david skalansky) and see if you can be of any help to them.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

If you're being a "good winner", I can't imagine adults would care that you'd win their $10 once a week. I'd think most would welcome the challenge you seem to be providing them.

My guess is that you try to work on the social aspect of playing in this tourney, nobody would care if you won every week. Why do you want to play so bad if they don't seem to want you there?

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

well, when we first started playing big tournies (2 3 table) I went first, second, first the first 3. I didn't think of myself as anything great, but I'd just played a LOT more tournies than these guys. Since I was the one wanting to play tournies, and I didn't want to go back to crap wild card games, I punted the next one.

I took it as a challenge, because I wanted to punt in a convncing way. I basically dumped almost all my chips early when I had a set and I was absolutely 100% certain he'd made his flush. It did help that I was tired and wanted to go home anyway.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

I can't imagine playing to lose ever. I'm not cutthroat competitive or anything, but the game completely loses its point if you aren't playing to win. And purposely losing just seems so....dishonest. It sticks in my craw.

I can see your delimna if this is a game you really want to play in, but I'd sooner not play in it than go and purposely lose.

Plus, I'd hate to tempt poker gods that way. It'd be fitting Karma to give a player who lost on purpose the mother of all losing streaks.

Not to mention that sooner or later you'll probalby not cash in the damn thing a buncha times in a row just naturally, no matter how soft it is.

Maybe you can push for a flatter deeper pay out, so lots of people get paid and leave happy, even if you're frequently one of em.

--Zetack

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

When my friend started playing poker, the best possible thing happned... i lost, and yes it was the best thing, losing. After that he was so confident he continued to play, givein me and the vets more money... losing is not a bad idea if your in it for the money, if your looking for fun just deal or something.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Ok, I just talked with a couple of the guys at soccer practice and they said that they honest and truly thought I was out of town last week. They also said that they didnt mine me winning so long as I promise to keep knocking Tony(the hot head) out. They would pay $10 to just see his face turn red.I also offered to lend them a few of my secrets...(Sklansky,Harrington,Malmuth,Brunson,ect ...)

On a side note, I have another question for all of you. I have very steady hands when I am involved in a pot. When I win a pot however, my hands still tremble. More so if I really had a hand as apposed to when I'm bluffing. I play in bigger buyins during the weekdays but I dont notice it any more so on a $200 buyin compared to a $10 buyin. I've been seriously playing for about a year now. Will this ever go away.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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Ok, I just talked with a couple of the guys at soccer practice and they said that they honest and truly thought I was out of town last week. They also said that they didnt mine me winning so long as I promise to keep knocking Tony(the hot head) out. They would pay $10 to just see his face turn red.I also offered to lend them a few of my secrets...(Sklansky,Harrington,Malmuth,Brunson,ect ...)

On a side note, I have another question for all of you. I have very steady hands when I am involved in a pot. When I win a pot however, my hands still tremble. More so if I really had a hand as apposed to when I'm bluffing. I play in bigger buyins during the weekdays but I dont notice it any more so on a $200 buyin compared to a $10 buyin. I've been seriously playing for about a year now. Will this ever go away.

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I take it you mean the shaking, and not the winning of pots. Who cares, as long as it's after the betting is over it doesn't matter, does it?

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

[ QUOTE ]
On a side note, I have another question for all of you. I have very steady hands when I am involved in a pot. When I win a pot however, my hands still tremble. More so if I really had a hand as apposed to when I'm bluffing. I play in bigger buyins during the weekdays but I dont notice it any more so on a $200 buyin compared to a $10 buyin. I've been seriously playing for about a year now. Will this ever go away.

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I am not sure what you're concerned about, as long as you're not giving away information before the hand is over.

I used to have this 'tell' of sorts when I raked a pot where my bet wasn't called. Anytime I was bluffing, I would grin slightly as I raked the chips in. Anytime I had it, I had a more serious look on my face.

The reason for it was of course I was pleased when I got away with one. The reason I didn't smile when I wanted a call is because I was disappointed.

Someone once pointed it out to me and I realized that they were watching me even after the hand was over.

I found that I couldn't control my grinning problem so I decided I should grin every time I won.

Not that this is even relavent but I felt like sharing.

PG

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Dump your chips to your wife!

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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Dump your chips to your wife!

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Best idea yet lol

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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... It sticks in my craw.

...

Plus, I'd hate to tempt poker gods that way. It'd be fitting Karma to give a player who lost on purpose the mother of all losing streaks.

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I like the cut of your jib, Zetack

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

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I pretty much agree - except that you shouldn't take a TOTAL dive. Instead of applying your proven 'beat this game' strategy. Simply expirement w/other strategies or tactics. Push where you might not have, see how they respond, etc...

Now you're investing in a) you're welcome there
and b) Poker experiences/skills/tools

[/ QUOTE ]
Ill try this and see how it goes. I like the thinking here, cheap poker schooling 101.

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To clarify - not advocating you take a dive...Just saying that if you feel the NEED to take one, you should do it this way. Its cheap poker schooling while you're hanging out/having fun with friends. I've used my friendly home tourney this way FREQUENTLY. Not so much to 'take dives' as much as keep it 'fun' for me and learn a lot in the process... about what does or doesn't work and why or why not...play a hand unusually - see if you find any merits or benefits in it...bet out where you would've checked...try playing your reads more than you usually do...try ...etc...etc... So many possibilities. So much to learn.

Also - share the wealth. If people are interested and open, help 'em get better when you can.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

Show up with a nice gift everyone can enjoy purchased from your last win (good bottle of booze, food item or $5 Starbucks card for everyone) then go win again, everyone will love you! Plus EV play, trust me.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

I am a regular in some of the small buy-in tournaments in Atlantic City and I routinely win/cash in them. I am generally a large favorite when I play in social home tournaments like the one you described.

There is a different psychology to these home tournaments. You're hanging out with a bunch of soccer dads who have never dreamed of winning the big one, as you probably have. This is not the place to debate the writings of Malmuth or whether to bet second pair on the river for value. Your social interaction with these people becomes much more important than poker. See your comments about the "hothead" above. Nobody wants him to win because he has "JERK" written on his forehead.

You have to remember this is like the company softball picnic and not the World Series. Be humble and gracious, quiet in the knowledge that you are a huge favorite.

If there are people who don't want you there, it is probably not because you keep winning. I respectfully suggest that where someone else is known as "the hothead" you may be known as "the expert" and that is -EV. Win with grace, don't teach anyone how to play, don't spout odds during all-ins, don't nitpick about trivial rules, congratulate with a smile everyone who outdraws you. You will be known as an affable nice guy who plays more poker than they do instead of the pro who comes here and runs over the game every week. They will invite you first to see if they can take down the "ringer" in the game.

But if you put a different target on your head your welcome is going to wear out quickly.

Re: I think I\'ve worn out my welcome!
 

I think your write Fletch; I am known as the expert because I am always the one they ask for rulings (EV-). I know that it bothers one of the parents. He once said “Why is Scott always in charge?” and another added, “Because he knows all the rules.”(EV-) I get along great with everyone but I think I will try to keep my head low tomorrow. I also have a habit of spouting out the pot odds for someone, something I never would do around my Wed & Thur games. I can see where that could bother someone, Thanx for the advice.

P.S. I am bringing a jug of Gentleman Jack for all to enjoy (EV+). They will probably think I’m getting them drunk so I can take their money again, Ha Ha.
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