Missing Bets?
 

I just sat down.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

Final Pot: 6 BB

Re: Missing Bets?
 

I'd curse myself for not raising the turn or betting the river, but I don't know if this is absolutely terrible. I think a 7 and 88 play this the same way, 99 and TT from a passive player (as well as J-small, and passive players do exist, I make notes on at least one a day, if not more).

I think that checkraising the turn is a decent idea here, since you can comfortably fold to a reraise.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

As it turned out probably. I don't think do anymore on the flop would have given you any more info. If he was on a flush draw he'd either call or cap a 3 bet. Donk betting the turn or c/r the turn might have given you more info on his hand. If he didn't show anymore aggression, it would have probably been ok to bet the river. But then the river card isn't real friendly to your hand. Overall I think a turn bet possibly would have helped you. The other option maybe is donk the river to see if he missed his draw a will let it go. So I say 1. donk turn option 2. donk river

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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ASo I say 1. donk turn option

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do you fold to a turn raise?

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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ASo I say 1. donk turn option

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do you fold to a turn raise?

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I dont like call calling or folding to a t/r, which is I didnt donk bet. I figured even if he was on a fd or overs he'd probably bet the turn for me.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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I'd curse myself for not raising the turn or betting the river,

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on the river, do you really think that of the times we get called, we are ahead more than 50% of the time?

Re: Missing Bets?
 

In a headsup blind battle I think you need to checkraise this turn. His range of hands is much broader than any other HU situation and his willingness to call down your checkraise with a weaker hand is much greater. If he 3-bets the turn then you can let it go.

If there wasn't a flush draw on this flop I would probably just call down.

Checkraising this turn is also positive for metagame purposes. If he knows you will play aggressively HU in blind steals then he is less likely to defend. He may also give you more action in future multiway pots because he will see your turn CR with 2nd pair as LAG.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

That's a good point, one I tend to lose sight of when we're 'obviously' ahead. I think having not bet the turn you might fold a slightly better pair but you probably won't get called when you're ahead.

So I'd still have been retroactively upset for not c/ring the turn, but I don't think betting the river is all that necessary.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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ASo I say 1. donk turn option

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do you fold to a turn raise?

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I dont like call calling or folding to a t/r, which is I didnt donk bet. I figured even if he was on a fd or overs he'd probably bet the turn for me.

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is he raising this turn with hands you don't beat? I can't see someone raising this turn with a flush draw or 7-weak kicker against your aggression pre-flop, on the flop and on the turn

or I could just be a bad player....

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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I think that checkraising the turn is a decent idea here, since you can comfortably fold to a reraise.

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I don't usually do this, but I like this play, and think it is probably the best move.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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is he raising this turn with hands you don't beat? I can't see someone raising this turn with a flush draw or 7-weak kicker against your aggression pre-flop, on the flop and on the turn



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1. Why cant you see a fd raising? People often make such semi-bluffs.

2. Are you suggesting I can fold to a t/r? I have outs.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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is he raising this turn with hands you don't beat? I can't see someone raising this turn with a flush draw or 7-weak kicker against your aggression pre-flop, on the flop and on the turn



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1. Why cant you see a fd raising? People often make such semi-bluffs.

2. Are you suggesting I can fold to a t/r? I have outs.

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no not at all - I'm just trying to understand better

I'm not trying to make the play seem bad or anything - just trying to see why people play it their way

isn't it pretty rare to see someone semi bluff raise the flop AND the turn? especially an unknown?

Re: Missing Bets?
 

If you check-raise turn and will be 3-bet you have to call getting 9:1

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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isn't it pretty rare to see someone semi bluff the flop AND the turn? especially an unknown?

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yeah, somewhat rare. but not so rare that i feel safe i'm not getting raised. keep in mind that AJ or KJ might raise the turn as well, thinking that I was merely defending against a freecard play. the point is, since i want to see a showdown, i'm not gonna like paying 2 on the turn, and this is a distinct possiblity of i donkbet.

EDIT: c/raising the turn is a different story, since now you have some fold equity against at least some hands that beat yours. but i'm not convinced a turn c/r is right either, because not all that many hands fall into this category.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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isn't it pretty rare to see someone semi bluff the flop AND the turn? especially an unknown?

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yeah, somewhat rare. but not so rare that i feel safe i'm not getting raised. keep in mind that AJ or KJ might raise the turn as well, thinking that I was merely defending against a freecard play. the point is, since i want to see a showdown, i'm not gonna like paying 2 on the turn, and this is a distinct possiblity of i donkbet.

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that makes sense

it just seems weird to be giving free cards with a decent but vulnerable hand (especially with the flush draw out there)

I would think check/calling the turn would be the worst of check/raising, bet/calling and bet/folding - but can be persuaded otherwise

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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it just seems weird to be giving free cards with a decent but vulnerable hand (especially with the flush draw out there)

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a fd at 5/10 short is going to be betting this turn for me like 90% of the time.
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I would think check/calling the turn would be the worst of check/raising, bet/calling and bet/folding - but can be persuaded otherwise

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bet folding is pretty bad, since you have outs.

a case can be made me for bet/calling and folding the river UI, but i still dont like it.

i think its pretty clearly between c/calling and c/raising.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

If you're worried about the flush draw, why not donk the turn and call down if raised?

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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I think that checkraising the turn is a decent idea here, since you can comfortably fold to a reraise.

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I don't think you should be too comfortable folding getting 9:1 with a hand that could very well be drawing live.

Re: Missing Bets?
 

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If you're worried about the flush draw, why not donk the turn and call down if raised?

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read my previous posts -- i explained why i'm not crazy about this.