10/25 AA...
 

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $25 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 ($2450)
CO ($5104)
Button ($3112)
SB ($9632.50)
Hero ($2737)
UTG ($2465)
UTG+1 ($545)
MP1 ($3453)
MP2 ($4591)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $110</font>, Button calls $110, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $195</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero?</font>

Just sat a little bit ago, no specific reads. Whats a good line here?

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

id go w/ allin.

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

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id go w/ allin.

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seriously? On a sidenote what other hands are you pushing here? (not saying that opponents would realize this, just wondering if you would push KK here too).

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

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[ QUOTE ]
id go w/ allin.

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seriously? On a sidenote what other hands are you pushing here? (not saying that opponents would realize this, just wondering if you would push KK here too).

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that is too much info for 2P2...

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

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that is too much info for 2P2...

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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

SB seems to be running good but I dunno how willing he is to call a push. Maybe he'll make a heroic call some how.
Push or raise to 800ish? Which line looks like AA?

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

Minraising from SB, i am gonna go ahead and read that as strength.
I Push.

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

Dude, I thought this was gonna be the hand we played!

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

Hey durrrr,

[ QUOTE ]
Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $25 BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP3 ($2450)
CO ($5104)
Button ($3112)
SB ($9632.50)
Hero ($2737)
UTG ($2465)
UTG+1 ($545)
MP1 ($3453)
MP2 ($4591)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls $25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $110</font>, Button calls $110, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $195</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero?</font>

Just sat a little bit ago, no specific reads. Whats a good line here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that any raise other than a push works. Pushing lets these guys off WAY too easy, presuming that you have a reasonable image.

If you were an opponent, would you call a push with QQ here? Would you call a smaller reraise?

Also, people need to keep in mind that SB's play looks a lot like a misclick...

Hope it worked out.

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]

If you were an opponent, would you call a push with QQ here? Would you call a smaller reraise?

Also, people need to keep in mind that SB's play looks a lot like a misclick...

Hope it worked out.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt look like a misclick. Looks like a standard donkraise. Pushing here seeems more illegitimate. I dont think many ppl 3bet preflop with thrash, its a lot more common to push pre with thrash.

Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

Hey JMa,

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you were an opponent, would you call a push with QQ here? Would you call a smaller reraise?

Also, people need to keep in mind that SB's play looks a lot like a misclick...

Hope it worked out.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt look like a misclick. Looks like a standard donkraise. Pushing here seeems more illegitimate. I dont think many ppl 3bet preflop with thrash, its a lot more common to push pre with thrash.

Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about?

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hey JMa,

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you were an opponent, would you call a push with QQ here? Would you call a smaller reraise?

Also, people need to keep in mind that SB's play looks a lot like a misclick...

Hope it worked out.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt look like a misclick. Looks like a standard donkraise. Pushing here seeems more illegitimate. I dont think many ppl 3bet preflop with thrash, its a lot more common to push pre with thrash.

Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about?

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]
uh?
everything in his post was pretty clear.

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]

uh?
everything in his post was pretty clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I agree, it was crystal-clear. ML4L, your post was thrash.

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

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It doesnt look like a misclick.

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What would a misclick look like?

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Looks like a standard donkraise.

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Standard? I personally don't see the min-reraise after a late position open and coldcall very often. I must be playing in the wrong games.

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Pushing here seeems more illegitimate.

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Putting another raise in here is screaming that you have a big hand, regardless of the amount. But, putting in your entire stack after two people have shown strength is FAR more obvious than some other amount, IMO.

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I dont think many ppl 3bet preflop with thrash, its a lot more common to push pre with thrash.

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With no information on the players, I don't belive a push with trash to be common here in a full game.

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Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

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If you call, you aren't calling for the sake of implied odds. This is the part in particular that I was reference when I wondered what you were talking about...?

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

uh?
everything in his post was pretty clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I agree, it was crystal-clear. ML4L, your post was thrash.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's hear your thoughts.

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey JMa,

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If you were an opponent, would you call a push with QQ here? Would you call a smaller reraise?

Also, people need to keep in mind that SB's play looks a lot like a misclick...

Hope it worked out.

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesnt look like a misclick. Looks like a standard donkraise. Pushing here seeems more illegitimate. I dont think many ppl 3bet preflop with thrash, its a lot more common to push pre with thrash.

Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you talking about?

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]
uh?
everything in his post was pretty clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps I'm slow. If it's not too much trouble, could you go ahead and explain why you think a push is best in the absence of image considerations?

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

In certain games, a lot players only reraise big here w/ AA and KK. These same players will sometimes push w/ smaller pairs and AK. Sometimes they will make a move w/ worse to pick up the pot. I assume that's what people are getting at.

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

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In certain games, a lot players only reraise big here w/ AA and KK. These same players will sometimes push w/ smaller pairs and AK. Sometimes they will make a move w/ worse to pick up the pot. I assume that's what people are getting at.

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Yeah, I mean, I know what people are getting at, but I just really don't think that it's valid in a full game where nobody has any reads. Certainly, there are some guys against whom you would rather call a push than a smaller reraise. But, I think that there are also guys against whom you would rather see a smaller raise than a huge overbet push.

IMO, I think that you are more likely to give people reasons to drop a hand than make a big call by pushing here. I guess others don't agree. Oh well.

I'm curious what you and others who play on UB think...

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]


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Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call, you aren't calling for the sake of implied odds. This is the part in particular that I was reference when I wondered what you were talking about...?

ML4L

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I read it as though he took the minraisers perspective: If you'd be facing a 3bet, would you sooner call a push or a reraise that won't give you implied odds?

Marnix

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

Raises to $750 and hopes to get it all-in pre-flop?

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call, you aren't calling for the sake of implied odds. This is the part in particular that I was reference when I wondered what you were talking about...?

ML4L

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it as though he took the minraisers perspective: If you'd be facing a 3bet, would you sooner call a push or a reraise that won't give you implied odds?

Marnix

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What I was saying is that the concept of implied odds doesn't play into this discussion at all. Neither a push nor a smaller reraise give you implied odds to try to draw out if your hand is not best.

ML4L

Re: 10/25 AA...
 

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It doesnt look like a misclick.

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What would a misclick look like?

It may be a misclick, but how many percent of the time do you think it is? I have no clue, but .5% of the time at the very most.

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like a standard donkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Standard? I personally don't see the min-reraise after a late position open and coldcall very often. I must be playing in the wrong games.

Well what hands would SB do this with? Why would he raise the minimum in the worst position? Original raiser will never fold to that raise. SBs raise sucks, hence "donk raise"

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing here seeems more illegitimate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Putting another raise in here is screaming that you have a big hand, regardless of the amount. But, putting in your entire stack after two people have shown strength is FAR more obvious than some other amount, IMO.

I believe the opposite. Its just like a "post-oak" bluff. You bet so little that your opponent thinks that you must have a hand, yet you dont. Just the other way around.

[ QUOTE ]
I dont think many ppl 3bet preflop with thrash, its a lot more common to push pre with thrash.

[/ QUOTE ]

With no information on the players, I don't belive a push with trash to be common here in a full game.

No I dont either. However I feel it will be alot more common to push with thrash than it will be to 3bet with it.

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Id rather call the push than the RR as I surely wont have enough implied odds to call.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you call, you aren't calling for the sake of implied odds. This is the part in particular that I was reference when I wondered what you were talking about...?

Lets say we are CO here with QQ. So we raise, SB donkraises and BB makes it $800 to go. We call, SB call.

Flop is 2 7 4r, just rags. SB checks, BB fire and we? If BB pushes pre instead at least we wont have any awkward post-flop decisions.

Now the quotes are f'ed up. Enjoy cutting edge forum technology from 1998.