something is very very wrong
 

I am on the worst downswing of my career. I have dropped 10 buy ins at 200nl and another 4 at 100nl. I was having a great end to october, up 1400 in the last week and all was well. Then my graph just dropped off the cliff and shot down. I feel awful about poker right now, nothing is going right for me.

The worst part is it is not as if I am getting drawn out on, I am just not getting into +EV spots that much. If I were losing two pair to a OESD while all in I could deal with that. I have the BR and the persistance. Nothing is going right. I am clearly running bad but I don't feel like a winning player. Before this I could lose 600$, call it a day, and say "k i'll come back tomorrow and do what i do and get it back" but now I don't feel that way. In the last 2200 hands at 100nl 6m I have won exactly 4 pots bigger than 50$. I have had AA and KK 15 times, I have either won a small pot of 10bb or the blinds, except for the one time I got stacked while having top set and the 3 to the flush on the turn.

I'm not trying to complain, because I don't feel I have gotten unlucky. I am cold decked to a certain degree and what not, but I am not getting it all in and outdrawn. The reason i mention those things is because I think they illustrate the place I'm at right now. I am just not winning big pots.

Solutions- Can I arrange to swap a group of hands with someone? I'll start posting more hands but I really don't think I've been making too many "mistakes". I have not really been overplaying hands and I don't really tilt (I cut a relatively large number of sessions short to prevent this). I used to be able to get it all in with AA against KK preflop at 200nl 6m, that never happens anymore. Ugh. Have the 100 and 200nl 6m games gotten less fishy? I always laugh when other people say that but right now I genuinely believe it. This post is long and pretty rambling and probably won't solve much on it's own, but I need to talk with someone about it.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Dude, call me tomorrow. PM me or IM me if you don't have my number anymore.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

I feel for you. I had been playing well and crushing 50nl and 100nl the past couple of months. i made over 1100 two weeks ago and then all of a sudden last week i just started to suck at poker. I dropped like 700 in a week by pushing draws that had no FE, getting stacked on overpairs, and generally playing like an [censored]. As well as getting unlucky a number of times like KK vs. 99 and JJ all in preflop and losing. Also i noticed that, like you, it seemed that evertime i got aces everyone folded. I ended up withdrawing my bankroll from Party and am taking this week just to review hand histories. next week i plan on playing some on other sites where i have money and maybe a couple of mtt's until i dive back in the following week. Reviewing the hands has seemed to clear my head a bit and let me reevaluate parts of my game that were leaking. I don't know if this helps you out at all, but good luck.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to complain, because I don't feel I have gotten unlucky.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel for ya. I am in such a bad place right now in cash games. I know I am not playing great. But, I don't think I am playing awful either. The trouble is that I HAVE been getting extremely unlucky. (and I've played long enough and been here long enough to see all the bad luck whine posts, so I don't say that lightly) I have been getting the money in with the best of it, and losing over and over again. I could list a dozen bad beats I've had this past week where I get stacked as a big favorite (big = 80+ %). And I am talking rivered 2-3 outters, not some guy chasing and hitting a flush on the river. I've had set over set a few times this past week as well, after maybe having it twice the whole rest of the year. Tuesday, I had the good end of set over set, and the guy hit quads on the turn after we were all-in.

Just a few minutes ago I played a hand where I had AK, raise preflop, get minraised by a donk, call, board is AK4, I bet, guy raises, I push, he has QQ and hits his two outter to win. It's been going that way. Yeah, that's a bad beat story. But it's so frustrating to lose to bad play like that. It's not like good players have been beating me. It's bad players making terrible plays when they have the worst of it and winning, that just puts me at the end of my rope in this whole poker thing.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

This is probably variance. You cant win every week. At one point I had won something like 30 weeks in a row. Was it a shock to then lose 4 out of the next 5 weeks? Yep. Then things turned around and boom I was winning again and won back almost everything I had lost in my month of hell in like 10 days. I lost confidence in myself.. was questioning my play... felt horrible... and with a good run of cards erased that month from my head.

Take a break for a week, clear your head, and go back at it knowing that you are a winning player.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Hmmm. This is very bizarre because I've hit a brick wall this month as well, with VERY similar bad beats. I've been noticing that I cannot get any callers with pocket aces either, and I raise a healthy number of pots.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Stick with it, you know you'll get it back. Feel free to PM some hands.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

I've been feeling similarly. All I can suggest is to take a break from Hold'em. Maybe do some crappy deposit bonus playing O/8 or something fun like that. Or completely take some time off. The nice thing I've noticed about taking these little breaks from Hold'em is that when I come back I either:
a. play better
or
b. I don't get as annoyed with myself and am actually think things through like a disciplined idiot.

Your advice has helped me in the past, so I'm hoping you bounce back.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Spend a weekend pouring over old HHs. Look for obvious leaks. Then go back, to playing... a lot of hands.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

im finally running well; won 8 buyins this session. or should i say, back to playing my game. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Voltron-

I'm truly sorry to hear about your downswing. As you may recall I recently went through something very similar. I took a break from big bet hold em and played LHE, PLO and some LO8, all much lower then my bankroll could sustain. Then, I started back at a one level lower then my BR could sustain, playing less tables and shorter sessions. Eventually I got my confidence back and started running better. For me, as the set over sets and OP v OP and 2nd nut flushes etc started to piled up I went on a kind of meta-tilt that took about a 5-6 weeks of disciplined study, reflection and lower-limit playing to unwind from.

I'm also considering working with a coach. Might not be a bad idea.

Also, you may want to re-read the things you said to me when I was running bad: link.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

I don't know about everyone else, but when i am having lots of fun, i play my best. After a bust a 3rd of the table, im my "A" game comes shining threw and i feel like nothing can stop me. When im playing to "get my money back" my game tends to take a nose dive, even if its suttle and i still think im playing "pretty good".

When on a bad streak, the sub-concious becomes a dark, evil place for alot of players. A once that happens, (at least for me) your gunna be a lil hurt up till you get a good rush again. I suggest doing whatever it takes to make poker "fun" again. If thats taking a break, switching games, reading HH's to plug leaks, reading more poker books and articles, or even just doing OTHER things you find fun in life more often.

I have been running bad this week as well. But i have just decided when im not having "fun" anymore, i just go listen to music, play Bass,or do whatever it takes to lighten up the old concious/subconcious. Then i go back later, take another bad beat, but at least the 25minutes before i took the beat was fun instead of my whole session being a self loathing, desperet grind for "my" money back. THat stuff compiles on top of itself if you don't break it up some how. Have fun, and good luck. May all of are bad streaks Turn around soon.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

It's tough.

Poker has so much variance... so much more than we even realise I think - I went 11 000 hands and made $250. I moved up from NL50 to NL100 tonight and I made that much in 500 hands.

Take a break, read a poker book and a non poker book. Switch down to a level where you are completely blaze about losing a buyin (but you still want to win the money, you don;t just push with JJ etc), and do 2 tables. You'll add 2 more pretty quickly I guess, but try to think about every decision. This helps me through bad runs.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about everyone else, but when i am having lots of fun, i play my best. After a bust a 3rd of the table, im my "A" game comes shining threw and i feel like nothing can stop me. When im playing to "get my money back" my game tends to take a nose dive, even if its suttle and i still think im playing "pretty good".

When on a bad streak, the sub-concious becomes a dark, evil place for alot of players. A once that happens, (at least for me) your gunna be a lil hurt up till you get a good rush again. I suggest doing whatever it takes to make poker "fun" again. If thats taking a break, switching games, reading HH's to plug leaks, reading more poker books and articles, or even just doing OTHER things you find fun in life more often.

I have been running bad this week as well. But i have just decided when im not having "fun" anymore, i just go listen to music, play Bass,or do whatever it takes to lighten up the old concious/subconcious. Then i go back later, take another bad beat, but at least the 25minutes before i took the beat was fun instead of my whole session being a self loathing, desperet grind for "my" money back. THat stuff compiles on top of itself if you don't break it up some how. Have fun, and good luck. May all of are bad streaks Turn around soon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still running bad, lost 5and 1/2 buy'ins today, worst day in 3months after a week of running bad. But i avg'ed 3/5's of a buy in per hour for a week and a half str8 2 weeks ago, varience is mathimatical satan.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Sucks man, but at least you got the Crimson challenges to fall back on.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sucks man, but at least you got the Crimson challenges to fall back on.

[/ QUOTE ]
whats this sir?

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sucks man, but at least you got the Crimson challenges to fall back on.

[/ QUOTE ]
whats this sir?

[/ QUOTE ]
NYC Crimson Challenges

Re: something is very very wrong
 

To OP: When I started playing NL at the end of the summer this year I got allin with AA preflop many times at the 100$NL at pokerroom. In the last month I don't think that has happend once except against shortstacks.

As for the general level of players I feel that it has gotten better too. In the last week I have only gotten paid off with a set one or two times and I 6-table about 15 hours a week

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Hey Voltron,
I'm with you:

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/6844/down6ni.jpg

And I'm not getting outdrawn or something, this is mainly spewing chips.
Take a break! At least that's what I'm going to do.
Good luck, Dude!

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Take a break. Seriously. Don't play at all for three days. Don't think about poker. A lot of the mental aspects are overlooked on these boards; confidence is incredibly important in winning poker. When you hit a bad run, for whatever reason, you lose confidence and can't play your best. Don't try to fight through it, because you'll just tilt off more money, possibly without even realizing how poorly you're playing. If you come back after a few days and start losing big again, stop. Take another break. Do this until you start off on the right foot, and then it's cake from there.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Ugh, doesnt looks very fun.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Yikes. I am just recovering from an 8 buy-in downswing in NL $200 so I feel for you. What helped me is that I added a $50 PLO8 table into my mix and focused on that game while playing as an uber TAG at my 3 NL $200 tables. In two sessions, I am up almost 2 buy-ins so I think it may have helped me get out of the marginal situations that I was trying to push too hard during my downswing.

As sidenote, I have discovered that the PLO8 players (at least at the $50 level) are at least as bad as the hold'em players at that level.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

I know exactly how you feel, for the last 20k hands or so I've been breaking even and having bad downswings then making it back up again, usually taking money off complete donkeys then losing to badbeats and such but also making a few stupid moves along the way, thankfully I've started to reverse this trend in the last week. If you need me to sweat your play or something let me know.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]


As sidenote, I have discovered that the PLO8 players (at least at the $50 level) are at least as bad as the hold'em players at that level.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said it. They love 2pairs and non-nut straights on flush boards. It's heaven.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Post hands, feel free to PM me a block or so if you want me to look at them. My computer just crashed, I have it working again now, so basically I just took a long break after getting owned and I at least feel like when I start playing again this weekend I will be in good shape.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

I'm going away this weekend and will be busy doing and thinking about other stuff so that is good. I could easily reload right now and be rolled for 200nl and still have a good amount of on hand cash in the bank but I didnt think I was a good time to do so. Right now I have about 1100 in party and I'm playing 100nl. So this is not some tragedy of me getting evicted or going broke, not at all, I just feel like it.

Thanks for everyone who offered help, hopefully I can swap a group of HHs with someone else and we could evaluate a blok of each other's hands. Other than that I'm not sure what I need, probably a break and a pep talk to get those stupid "are the party games dead?" thoughts out of my head would do most of it.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

yo dude, if you want you can send me a block of your hands and I will try to look at em and give you my best opinion, I think we play about the same limits. I don't want to make any commitments though in case I don't get around to it

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

CO ($103.80)
Button ($85.75)
Hero ($253.40)
BB ($92.15)
UTG ($244.60)
MP ($102.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $14.5</font>, BB calls $14, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $192.1</font>, Hero calls all in, BB folds.

Flop: ($212.60) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: ($212.60) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: ($212.60) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $212.60

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kh Ks (two pair, kings and queens).
CO has Tc Kc (straight, king high).
Outcome: CO wins $184.60. Hero wins $28. </font>






Seriously though, I am actually getting out of this rut. I was up 2 buy ins today before that hand. 200$ has not felt like so much in so long. I want to thank everyone who has offered to review my hands, I haven't responded yet because I'm pretty busy right now and am about to get around to it. Soon I'll have a longer post to talk about what I've learned.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

not sure what to say except, well, that sucks. Post more hands.

On a happy note I won 5 buyins over the last two days...
at three times the stakes I normally play.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($106.85)
BB ($566.15)
UTG ($150.50)
MP ($78.50)
CO ($112.70)
Button ($86)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero (poster) raises to $5.5</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls $5, Button calls $5.

Flop: ($19) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $15</font>, UTG folds, Button calls $15.

Turn: ($49) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, Button calls $65 (All-In), Hero calls $35.

River: ($179) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: $179

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Qh Qd (three of a kind, queens).
Button has Js Tc (straight, king high).
Outcome: Button wins $179. </font>



I'm down for today. wow.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

seems like you might be taking this too seriously. I would suggest a break from poker

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am on the worst downswing of my career.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto.

[ QUOTE ]
I have dropped 10 buy ins at 200nl

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, 100nl for me.

[ QUOTE ]
I feel awful about poker right now, nothing is going right for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I feel awful about poker right now, nothing is going right for me.

[ QUOTE ]
The worst part is it is not as if I am getting drawn out on, I am just not getting into +EV spots that much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Same.

[ QUOTE ]
I am clearly running bad but I don't feel like a winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never felt so fishy either.


[ QUOTE ]
I am just not winning big pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.

[ QUOTE ]
I need to talk with someone about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's like you're reading my mind.



(ps, I don't have much of a point, but you're not alone in this, if that helps at all)

Re: something is very very wrong
 

[ QUOTE ]
seems like you might be taking this too seriously. I would suggest a break from poker

[/ QUOTE ]

today actually felt a lot better. I broke slight above ever (up 20$ for 3 hours play or so) but for the first time in a while I felt like I played well and put in a solid winning session. Last week I was not feeling that way, I was feeling helpless and like I forgot what it was like to be a winning player.

I stepped down from 200/400nl even though I could deposit the BR for it, and 100nl is not much money to me so when I lose to beats like that it is pretty much comical. I am not losing the last 400$ in my pockets here. When you've been on a huge downswing and you finally get it all in the middle with the biggest preflop advantage you can possibly expect, and lose, you just have to laugh. I posted the second hand because I was just plain annoyed, it happened about 2 minutes after the KK/KT one. I closed all my tables and called it a night.

Even though I was up 2 buy ins with the prospect of going to a +3-4 night, and then instead went to being down for the night in 15 minutes, I feel good about the session. I'm repeating myself, but If I played like this everyday I know I would be back to winning at a great clip. I could not say that a week ago.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

The long run is very long. Bad runs can go on seemingly forever. When running bad, dont overthink too much. Just drop down a level, play one fewer table and tighten up. Go back to basics. Players that cant drop down and tighten up go bust.

Re: something is very very wrong
 

First of all i play at the 25nl at party, so I am no expert but here is what I see. The first thing I see wrong is that this guy called a raise with a marginal hand. Second once the flop came I would have made a pot sized or bigger bet. Your bet on the flop gave him 2.26-1 pot odds, but he had an oped ended so that gave him 8 outs 4.87-1 underdog, but huge implied odds. Once that 9 came on the turn and you made almost a pot sized raise and he re-reraised you I would have stopped and really thought at that point that I was beat or could be beat. Also how quick did you call that all-in. Unfortunately it seems you playing against a donk who doesn't understand the terms +Ev or domination. It sucks and that hand would be hard to get away from. Anyways I hope things turn around. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: something is very very wrong
 

no worries, it happens to the best of us. I would suggest getting/reading Inside The Poker Mind, mainly the chapter on "Emotion". I think this will help alot.