Value of freedom
 

is freedom valuable in and of itself, or is it a means to an ends.

I'm fairly sure that the liberterian leaning people here, are entirely confident that more freedom leads to better outcomes, but i'm wondering if it's seen as a means towards greater happiness or resulting in greater happiness in and of itself.

Re: Value of freedom
 

its the end result-

-the freedom to live life however you want, so long as you don't put yourself in a position to seriously ruin someone else's life including your family (some people seem to think that destroying your own life with heroin for instance doesn't destroy your family).

Re: Value of freedom
 

Freedom is valueable in itself. The fact that it leads to better results is secondary.

Re: Value of freedom
 

Freedom is the means by which an individual can seek his or her own ends. It really doesn't do much on its own.

Re: Value of freedom
 

Happiness is subjective. In my opinion, more freedom = more happiness though.

Re: Value of freedom
 

Doesn't it cost a Buck-Oh-Five?

http://www.crankycritic.com/archive0...a_v2_small.jpg

At least that's what the song says.

Re: Value of freedom
 

Both

Re: Value of freedom
 

[ QUOTE ]
is freedom valuable in and of itself, or is it a means to an ends.

I'm fairly sure that the liberterian leaning people here, are entirely confident that more freedom leads to better outcomes, but i'm wondering if it's seen as a means towards greater happiness or resulting in greater happiness in and of itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not going to meet very many authoritarian-minded people at a gambling forum. Ideally, every place would be like this, with the loony bigot right and the crazy Stalinist left completely irrelevant and the political specturm ranging from anarcho-capitalists and other conservative libertarians to anaarcho-syndicalists and other socialist libertarians.

Re: Value of freedom
 

[ QUOTE ]
...anarcho-capitalists and other conservative libertarians to anaarcho-syndicalists and other socialist libertarians...

[/ QUOTE ]


And if you can't find your own personal pigeon hole, speak up.
We'll get one for you. Waiting time is minimal.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Value of freedom
 

[ QUOTE ]
Freedom is the means by which an individual can seek his or her own ends. It really doesn't do much on its own.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? So living in a government mandated house with a government mandated job provides the exact same satisfaction as choosing that exact house and that job and making your own way? I would choose less "ends" if given more freedom in my "means". I'd rather be a free poor man than a rich slave.

Re: Value of freedom
 

[ QUOTE ]
is freedom valuable in and of itself, or is it a means to an ends.

I'm fairly sure that the liberterian leaning people here, are entirely confident that more freedom leads to better outcomes, but i'm wondering if it's seen as a means towards greater happiness or resulting in greater happiness in and of itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

The important thing is that it doesn't matter. With more freedom, some will be more happy, and some will be less happy. But it's not the state's role to coerce you into being more happy (as determined by some bureucrate empowered to do so). You as my neighbor have no right to decide for me whether I'm happy, or how I can best achieve happiness.

Even if we knew exactly how to make everyone happy, deliriously happy (and actually we do), it would be wrong to enforce such a lifestyle on people.

natedogg

Re: Value of freedom
 

[ QUOTE ]
if we knew exactly how to make everyone happy, deliriously happy (and actually we do)

[/ QUOTE ]

Mmmmmm Soma.

Re: Value of freedom
 

The ability to make decisions definitely has a positive correlation with better decisions, otherwise known as +EV.

However, this does not always mean more decisions is always better. For example, in the Monte Hall Dilemma, you don't want to have the decision to stay. Of course, giving your freedom away generally allows the other person to do what he wants.

But there are definitely places where freedom is not always good. I think living in a world where people didn't have the freedom to kill others would be nice.