How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

Ok, I mentioned how unlucky I get when playing tournaments. But in cash games I seem to do alright. My best games seem to be limit tables, but I occassionally play some NL home cash games. For the most part I do alright at them as well. A majority of the time I end up making money... Not getting rich, but coming out ahead nonetheless. But there is one player I play against on a regular basis that I just can't seem to beat.

This guy will call any raise with any two cards from any position. He will gladly chase a flush when he needs runner-runner, and make it most of the time, no matter how much you bet. You can raise 5x the BB with AA and he'll call you with 35 suited and end up catching his flush or two pair. I know poker logic dictates that you want this type of player at your table. But I have played with this guy for more than a year now and I have NEVER seen him leave with less money than he started with. He has no clue about odds or position, in fact, if you mention either of those things to him he will look you in the eye and ask "What the hell does that have to do with anything?" He plays totally by "feel".

So how do you beat this type of player? My strategy for the most part is to just avoid him as much as possible. He simply ignores aggression and trying to trap him usually ends up backfiring on me. For example: I once thought I had trapped him with a nut flush, I knew he was chasing it with lower cards of the suit and when it hit on the turn I knew he'd call any bet I made, only to see him catch a straight flush on the river. What a pisser.

So how would you combat this type of player? Am I doing right to just try avoiding him?

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

players like this are unbeatable because they have sold their souls to the devil for their luck in poker.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

There is no such thing as luck. It is most likely your perception that he is lucky because he seems to come out ahead all the time. Any chance that it just seems that way? Do you have any hard evidence?

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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... This guy will call any raise with any two cards from any position. He will gladly chase a flush when he needs runner-runner, and make it most of the time, no matter how much you bet. You can raise 5x the BB with AA and he'll call you with 35 suited and end up catching his flush or two pair...
...But I have played with this guy for more than a year now and I have NEVER seen him leave with less money than he started with...
...I once thought I had trapped him with a nut flush, I knew he was chasing it with lower cards of the suit and when it hit on the turn I knew he'd call any bet I made, only to see him catch a straight flush on the river...

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If what you say is true and this is been going on for over a year the easy solution is to not let him deal.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

Players like this are the kind you want at your table, BUT, there are those rare few who have a tremendous amount of luck and never seem to lose. The easiest way to combat him taking your money is to A. Not play a pot against him, B. Kill yourself so you cant go to the game and lose your money, or C. make a post that doesnt tell us how a player who is as horrible as you say he is always wins. You made a lot of sense in your post...

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

We've all had players whom we feel are our nemesis who always seem to beat us no matter what. There are usually a few big hands that stand out in our memory where they took the worst of it and sucked out, taking "our" big pot from our grasp.

People do run good or bad. That can't be denied. But when the last hand is over, the next one begins. To get the money, you have to play your best poker each and every hand. To avoid a particular player because he's "lucky," or to try to play against another because he's "unlucky" is -EV.

There are also some players who seem to be taking the worst of it all the time, but if you look at their play closely, they're not playing as badly as we might think. If this guy wins every time, he must be doing at least some things right. Luck is usually the residue of design.

Post a hand or two or three in the appropriate forum where you play against him and he gets lucky. See what the forum thinks about his play. If he is indeed just running good, this too shall pass.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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There is no such thing as luck. It is most likely your perception that he is lucky because he seems to come out ahead all the time. Any chance that it just seems that way? Do you have any hard evidence?

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This is wrong.




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players like this are unbeatable because they have sold their souls to the devil for their luck in poker.

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This is right.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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There is no such thing as luck. It is most likely your perception that he is lucky because he seems to come out ahead all the time. Any chance that it just seems that way? Do you have any hard evidence?

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This is wrong.




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players like this are unbeatable because they have sold their souls to the devil for their luck in poker.

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This is right.

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Oh - my bad. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I absolutely won't play a hand if he's in it. He's just the one player that I won't try anything tricky with. I never EVER try to bluff him because it's totally pointless.

The only move I know to make on him is to move all-in if it's a rainbow flop and I'm pretty sure I have the best hand at the time. Most of the time when I do this he'll fold because he still needs two cards to make his draw. He will usually show me his cards and say if he only needed one more he would call in a heartbeat. Although I've lost count of how many times I've seen him risk all of his money to catch runner-runner or a gutshot. When it looks like he only needs one card to make his draw I still bet heavy, the size of the pot or more, but I don't risk moving all-in.

I'm not sure what proof I can give you he always wins. I only know that I've never seen him leave with less money than he started with. Now there have been nights where he only made a small profit. But I know when his name is mentioned everyone just groans. Also, we usually have a permanent dealer.... About 90% of the time.

As for my own play... I'm not too worried with my cash game play. I'm not perfect by any means and I'm always looking to learn more and improve my game. What I try to do most of all is get good reads on the other players and base my moves on those reads and my position. And several of the people I play with on a regular basis have paid me the highest compliment I can think of... That is they've told me several times that they just can't get a read on me. My actions are the same if I have the nuts or if I'm bluffing. If I could just get that to carry over to my tournament play I'd be doing alright.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

So you'll push when you think you are ahead and he calls? So you are giving him 2-1 odds to make a call when he only needs one card? You do realize that a call on a 4 flush on the flop only needs 2-1 odds to be a good call right? Add an OESD and he'd be wrong to NOT call.

Sorry man - but it sounds to me like you are not quite the poker player he is.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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So you'll push when you think you are ahead and he calls? So you are giving him 2-1 odds to make a call when he only needs one card? You do realize that a call on a 4 flush on the flop only needs 2-1 odds to be a good call right? Add an OESD and he'd be wrong to NOT call.

Sorry man - but it sounds to me like you are not quite the poker player he is.

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Please read more carefully. I said if I'm pretty sure he still needs two cards to make his draw I will push. This seems to be the only thing that will occasionally push him off of his draws. But he will some times call anyway and he catches his two cards a lot more than the odds would indicate that he should.

And don't even try telling me that he knows when he's getting proper odds. He openly states that the cards don't know what the odds are, so the odds do not matter to him. He also says that people who take the time to calculate odds and worry about position are reading too many poker books. If that makes him a better player than me, then so be it.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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This guy will call any raise with any two cards from any position. He will gladly chase a flush when he needs runner-runner, and make it most of the time, no matter how much you bet.

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Stick it out.

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You can raise 5x the BB with AA and he'll call you with 35 suited and end up catching his flush or two pair.

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Be able to fold.

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He simply ignores aggression and trying to trap him usually ends up backfiring on me.

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Don't bluff him. Don't slowplay him.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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This guy will call any raise with any two cards from any position. He will gladly chase a flush when he needs runner-runner, and make it most of the time, no matter how much you bet.

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Stick it out.

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You can raise 5x the BB with AA and he'll call you with 35 suited and end up catching his flush or two pair.

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Be able to fold.

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He simply ignores aggression and trying to trap him usually ends up backfiring on me.

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Don't bluff him. Don't slowplay him.

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Thank you for the non-sarcastic and non-insulting advice. It is much appreciated.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

Do you wear sunglasses while you play?

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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Do you wear sunglasses while you play?

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Nope, although I have once or twice. It requires putting in my contacts and I didn't notice that it gave me any sort of advantage.

A few weeks ago some friends of mine were holding a tournament and offered extra starting chips to anyone who showed up in their halloween costume. So I showed up with a Jason mask and wearing a pair of Raybans on top of it. Everyone insisted that I should wear it every time I play. LOL [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

I must be bored to jump in this thread... another I can't beat lose players/games post.

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As for my own play... I'm not too worried with my cash game play.

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Really? What do you do against this type of player in a cash game? Avoid him also? These type of guys are one of the most profitable to have in your game. You don't want to avoid him, you want to engage him whenever you can. Tourneys you wait for a little better edge than normal since your tourney could be on the line, but then go for it. If he catches, oh well.

Given how you described how he plays, there is no way he is/will be a long term winner. He's on a shortterm splurge. Those can last for awhile.

I'd suggest spending much more time in the strategy forums so you can analyze his plays and see just how much he is losing longterm with his play.

b

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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The only move I know to make on him is to move all-in if it's a rainbow flop and I'm pretty sure I have the best hand at the time. Most of the time when I do this he'll fold because he still needs two cards to make his draw. He will usually show me his cards and say if he only needed one more he would call in a heartbeat. Although I've lost count of how many times I've seen him risk all of his money to catch runner-runner or a gutshot. When it looks like he only needs one card to make his draw I still bet heavy, the size of the pot or more, but I don't risk moving all-in.

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He's got you playing scared. If you think he needs runner-runner, you should bet enough to keep him in, not chase him out. Bet the pot and hope he calls.

If he only needs one card (gutshot, flush draw, etc), push and hope he calls. He's not getting correct odds unless he's got both the OESD and the flush draw at the same time.

You've got it backwards, and you probably have lots of other leaks that are costing you a lot.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

he can play anything preflop because he can outplay you guys so badly postflop

my advice: he is most likely way better than you but is just messing around because he feels guilty taking too much of your cash. go learn the game, til then stress less, maybe even ask him for some tips if you are close

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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He's got you playing scared. If you think he needs runner-runner, you should bet enough to keep him in, not chase him out. Bet the pot and hope he calls.

If he only needs one card (gutshot, flush draw, etc), push and hope he calls. He's not getting correct odds unless he's got both the OESD and the flush draw at the same time.

You've got it backwards, and you probably have lots of other leaks that are costing you a lot.

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You're right, on all points. I'm aware that my game has leaks and I'm trying to fix them.

One thing I'd like to clear up though.... Many people here seem to get the impression that I have no clue what I'm doing. This doesn't apply to you as you just gave good solid advice without sounding insulting in the process. I've been pretty open about the fact that I know my game needs help. I believe I have the basics down quite well. I've only been playing somewhat seriously for about 1 1/2 years now, but have reached the point that I've started a bankroll and I'm playing completely from my winnings. Out of all the people I know who play poker, only one other player can say the same thing. So I don't think I'm the idiot that some people seem to think I am.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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One thing I'd like to clear up though.... Many people here seem to get the impression that I have no clue what I'm doing.

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Most people over here do not think you are an idiot. Maybe a victim to variance. Someone's ability to play poker has nothing to do with his mental capabilities.
Given the title of the post: How to beat a player who seems lucky.
Read Theory of Poker and KNOW what is written about long term and luck is the holy truth. Stick to your knowledge from TOP and punish the runner runner player with giving him terrible odds. Even when he hits his flush, be happy he chased. He will lose in the long run.
Good luck and stop being so results oriented, or you'll change into one of those donks who always plays JTo because he always wins (sucs out) with it.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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Maybe a victim to variance.

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I have played with this guy for more than a year now and I have NEVER seen him leave with less money than he started with.

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Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

If he does consistantly leave with more money, it sounds to me that he does have something over you. Could easily be a player willing to accept high chip swings during his session for big payouts when he hits.

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

luck or cheating

i've seen both

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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luck or cheating

i've seen both

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If someone has literally not had a single losing session over the course of a year, I'm pretty sure I know which one it is. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: How to beat a player who seems lucky....
 

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Out of all the people I know who play poker, only one other player can say the same thing. So I don't think I'm the idiot that some people seem to think I am

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No, but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.