Another live hand.
 

I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] live play even though I run like crap. Yay < 10% VPIP.

Game is running insanely tight. GoT is to my right and Bakku is to his right. There are a couple of bad players in the game, but recently they've been folding rather than limping. Bah.

Bakkubakku folds. GoT folds. I raise K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] next to act. Guy on my left folds, and an Asian guy (AG) who isn't too loose (maybe 30% VPIP) and plays oddly postflop (not crazy aggressive, but does make odd plays) coldcalls. CO folds, weak-playing Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB folds, I call, AG calls. 3 to the flop for 10.5SB.

The flop is J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I check. AG bets. Weak playing guy looks confused and raises. I 3-bet. AG calls two cold. Weak guy looks pissed and folds.

Turn is the 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. I bet. AG raises. I fold.

Rob

Re: Another live hand.
 

I think you gotta fold there. I like your play up to that point. You can't check and give AG a free heart draw so bet/folding is definitely correct.

Re: Another live hand.
 

I like how you got the weak guy to fold. I'm not sure I like the turn fold though.

He could have a hand like QhJx, JxTh, or Ah7x. I also like CDC's? advice. I always yell aiya when I'm bluff raising the turn. Gotta fix that.

Re: Another live hand.
 

did the asian guy yell "aiya!!!!" when he raised?

if he did he is full of it and you should 3-bet him.

if he didn't, he almost always has the nuts and you should fold.

asians are very easy to read.

Re: Another live hand.
 

I fixed the hand. The turn was a diamond. No "aiyaaaa!" to be heard.

Rob

Re: Another live hand.
 

that would be tough for me to lay down. you think QQ or set of 77s?

Re: Another live hand.
 

I'm concerned (for me) because I play the flop very differently.

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm concerned (for me) because I play the flop very differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, once the weak guy raises you're almost never ahead

Re: Another live hand.
 

Can you explain more why you folded? Except for the two flush cards, the board is uncoordinated. You've got top pair with an overcard kicker. There's a lot he could have other than trips, and his turn raise is consistent with a semi-bluff with a hand like A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Even if you are behind to AJ or a goofy two pair, you have outs to improve. There are 10BB in the pot, so why not stick around?

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm concerned (for me) because I play the flop very differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, once the weak guy raises you're almost never ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly, guys. The weak guy raising the flop might occassionally just have overcards, but usually his look of confusion will be because he has an overpair and is starting to get afraid that someone has drawn out on him.

Our top pair does not strike me as that strong a hand. Weak-tighties often have very narrow three-betting ranges (AA-QQ, AK, often not including hands like AKo and JJ). The aggro. cold-caller/flop bettor doesn't have me that worried but he may have flopped a draw which substantially hurts our equity.

So I think that if we check this flop it should probably be with the intent of folding to two cold back to us. My second choice would probably be to cold-call the two back to us and donk a turn that is not an overcard or a flush card. Three-betting strikes me as running third here, personally.

Re: Another live hand.
 

One thing to note is that the weak guy folding to the flop raise is such an anomoly here that we really can't count on it happening any significant amount of the time going into the decision. I think it is much more likely we get capped (by an overpair from the weakie, by a set or big draw or something from the agg. guy), than that either of our two opponents fold.

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
his look of confusion will be because he has an overpair and is starting to get afraid that someone has drawn out on him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I would interpret his look as saying, "huh? You're betting into me? Don't you know I 3-bet PF because I have AK, AA, or KK?" I would fold the flop and be glad that AG helped me define weakie's hand without having to invest any more money.

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
did the asian guy yell "aiya!!!!" when he raised?

if he did he is full of it and you should 3-bet him.

if he didn't, he almost always has the nuts and you should fold.

asians are very easy to read.

[/ QUOTE ]

At least we're using the politically correct terminology Asian Guy (AG), as opposed to the outmoded vernacular Oriental Guy (OG), or the quaint yet descriptive China Man (CM).

Re: Another live hand.
 

So, OTB folded AK, and AG flopped a set of 7s? Tough to think your hand was good there; nice fold.


[ QUOTE ]
I [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] live play even though I run like crap. Yay < 10% VPIP.


[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly. I played a mini-session of 4/8 for 4 hours at the local dinky cardroom yesterday in between classes and was icy cold. I played pretty well and managed to drop only 12 BB.

Re: Another live hand.
 

Count me in among the "fold the flop" group.
Once the weak player does fold though, I kinda wanna showdown vs. an aggressive player, especially given the unlikelyhood that he takes a free turn card if you check.

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm concerned (for me) because I play the flop very differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, once the weak guy raises you're almost never ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you were there, but I picked up something (can't say what) that looked like he wasn't happy being donked into. If I hadn't picked up any sort of read/tell I was folding.

Rob

Re: Another live hand.
 

Folding preflop also has to be considered - though you did enough of that in Vegas that I totally understand.

-DeathDonkey

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Folding preflop also has to be considered - though you did enough of that in Vegas that I totally understand.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Table was 8-haned so I was effectively either MP2 or MP3 here, FWIW.

Rob

Re: Another live hand.
 

I like folding much better than 3-betting.

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like folding much better than 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
plays oddly postflop (not crazy aggressive, but does make odd plays

[/ QUOTE ]

Anything wrong with calling down from the turn? What range do you put him on that you are so sure you need to fold here? Couldn't this turn raise be an "odd play" with him holding. Pot is 12 BB at this point. Seems like a tough laydown to me.

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm concerned (for me) because I play the flop very differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, once the weak guy raises you're almost never ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you were there, but I picked up something (can't say what) that looked like he wasn't happy being donked into. If I hadn't picked up any sort of read/tell I was folding.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

i totally don't remember this hand or which old guy you are talking about, but i trust your reads so this looks good

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm concerned (for me) because I play the flop very differently.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea, once the weak guy raises you're almost never ahead

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you were there, but I picked up something (can't say what) that looked like he wasn't happy being donked into. If I hadn't picked up any sort of read/tell I was folding.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

i totally don't remember this hand or which old guy you are talking about, but i trust your reads so this looks good

[/ QUOTE ]

He was in the #2 or the #3 seat for quite a while. Slightly balding, white, middle aged, played badly postflop from what I can remember.

Rob

Re: Another live hand.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I like folding much better than 3-betting.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like going for a checkraise, that seems reasonable - however a CR three bet, with a really subpar hand, with not much hope of improving seems very close to spew.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]