Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I have heard some guys I play with say that it is their job, playing live 3/6 limit at the casinos around where I live, which I find hard to believe. The stakes just aren't high enough. I mean you could make a living I guess, but I don't see how you could consisently make more than 20K a year and that would be playing 40 hours plus. You figure you see 33 hands or so an hour, and even if you are a 3 BB/100 hands winner that is only six dollars an hour. I would like to get to the point where I can consistently beat 10/20 limit live. I think one could make a living of about 40-50K if they were really good in the live games.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

there guys must not see alot of sunlight huh? I also find this hard to believe.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Well, 1.5bb/hr would be about the norm. $9/hr at MOST and it's probably not anywhere close to that. I'd rather work for a living than make 6 bucks an hour playing poker for a living.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I have known some people that squeeze out an existance at 3-6 (or 4-8) in B&M. I know of a couple that got a check from teh governament for mental problems and I know one that jsut isnt' that good, but with the growth in poekr he has been able to move up to 10-20.

Some people like the "freedom" of being able to go in when they want more than the money they woudl make workign a regular job. Also I guess if you were uneducated making $10 an hour sitting in a casino is better than making $10 an hour doing something else.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

No way. Maybe if the rake was similar to online, but not if it's $4 max or more up to 10%. These guy's must have some other source of income that they don't mention. Even living in a cheap studio and no other expenses but food this would be hard. It is possible if these are your only bills, but it's more likely they have unemployment checks or an inheritance or something.

You would have to play at least 10-20 with B&M rake.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

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Well, 1.5bb/hr would be about the norm. $9/hr at MOST and it's probably not anywhere close to that. I'd rather kill myself than make 6 bucks an hour playing poker for a living.

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Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

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I have heard some guys I play with say that it is their job, playing live 3/6 limit at the casinos around where I live

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Maybe they meant that they are props? That would make playing 3/6 a job, but doesn't necessarily mean that they make a living at it. I would think a winning player getting a small hour wage could eek out a living playing 3/6, but it wouldn't be a great one.

If they aren't props, then they are probably FOS. Why would anyone who was good enough to beat 3/6 for enough BB/hour to live on not move up to a bigger game? Bankroll could be a problem, but it all it would take would be one big night or a jackpot to get enough to sit in a 5/10 game, or whatever the next step up is in your area.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Generally live 3-6 games are about equal in skill to .5-1 internet games, and sometimes worse.

If you are a good player, I wouldnt be surprised to see you earning more than 3bb/100 with good seat/table selection in 3-6 live

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I've known guys who make their living grinding it out at the tiny limits. They can do this because they eat all their food at the casino, using comps, and more importantly, they get all their drinks free at the casino. These guys are generally alchoholics or close to it and getting free drinks saves a ton of money for them. Plus the games are soft enough that they can beat it even when in their perpetual state of semi-drunk/drunk.

It's not much of a life. More of a subsistence really. But is it really worse than washing dishes or scaling fish for minimum wage?

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

You can easily beat a 3/6 live game for about 9 to 12 an hour. Now if you want a high stress job for 12 bucks an hour minus expensive casino food/gas and tips is another story. Usually if a guy is pro he is a student/house husband, or welfare/ disability pension scammer.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

They could probably do it if they still lived with their mom.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I think you could make a living off this in a low-income area. I know I moved out during highschool when I was making 5.15 an hour and did fine because the cost of living was so low where I lived.

I wouldn't call this preferable but it's certainly possible.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Yeah that's true if you live in Iowa it's feasible. NYC or any major city in Cali you maybe like Elix Powers........ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

A few things not being mentioned:

Generally these guys are not paying State or Federal taxes.

Even in very expensive areas like Los Angeles, you can find ghetto areas with rent as low as $500/month for a studio and $600-650 for a one bedroom.

I hate to mention this....and please don't make me explain how I know this guy, but there is a guy in Los Angeles...generally plays very low limit at Bike and Commerce, but if he gets on a run has played as high as $20-40....he gets some kind of military/retirement/disability check...enough to pay for his room at a crap hole downtown(generally these run $250-400 a month..again do not ask how I know this) and a few hundy extra to blow at the casinos which he generally does within a few days of receieving said check. Oh yeah, he takes MTA to the casinos. Anywho, he spends the rest of the month mooching meals off people and sometimes someone stakes him in a $3-6 game. Repeat this cycle any time he wins in the $3-6 game, or whenever he recieves his checks.

So technically, this guy makes a living in Los Angeles playing $3-6 holdem :P

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

That guy is not a professional. A professional isn't a bumb. Anyway, I already wrote this in the other forum you posted, and yes, it is possible to be a 3/6 grinder if you are propping. I know of more than one prop who are not winning players by any stretch.

At commerce, the games are so incredibly weak and wild, you may be able to pull it off, if you rent downtown. I think that it would be better to at least play 5/ 10 if you are planning on making an income, and that is if you are very table selective and very good. Don't plan on paying taxes, either.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Yeah I knew the type. The 4/8 semi bum who collected welfare and had a hidden roll of a few k who would mooch at the local charity holdem games, if they went bad. The race track has similar types....... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

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It's not much of a life. More of a subsistence really. But is it really worse than washing dishes or scaling fish for minimum wage?

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I make double minimum wage washing dishes, I'd much rather wash dishes than sit in the tiny cardroom surrounded by retarded college kids(i'm a retarded college kid too, btw) grinding out 3/6. But hold'em pisses me off.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

You can make "a living" washing windshields at the offramp to the third avenue bridge...

3/6 should be played for recreation.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I know a kid who played live 4/8 for a living on a 1k bankroll for about six months. he ate off the dollar menu at mcdonald's everyday and played about 50 hours a week. he had a slight case of insomnia and slept a few hours everyday so he actually had some sort of social life.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Don't underestimate how horrible the play is at low limit live poker. You should be making more than 3BB/100 if you know what you're doing. If you played $3/$6 somewhere like Tunica where the cost of living is low and you can get 3 meals a day fully comped, you could survive.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Why would you ever want to make a "living" at 3/6?

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

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Why would you ever want to make a "living" at 3/6?

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I wouldn't, in fact as another poster has already mentioned, I would probably kill myself before I played $3/$6 for a living. I'm just saying it's possible.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I will make a stab at this. I live in Kansas City and play about 15 hours a week at the local card room. So far in my very brief poker career, I have averaged 13.36 p/hr between the 3/6 and 4/8 for over 300 hours. I know the sample is small, but I just started.

I agree with the posters previously, the only 'rounders' who are doing this fall into four catergories. 1. goverment scammers, who receive a monthly check. 2. Househusbands who wife is supporting them. 3. Fleas who live with mom/dad. 4. Students.

Could you live off just playing 3/6 to 4/8 maybe. But it would suck. Assuming I quit my job and decided I would want to try this lifestyle. Here is what I came up with.

I would live in downtown KC, with no car. But the city bus will take you to the casinos. So you could live without a car. My breakdown on expenses.

decent apt. DT KC $500
gas/electric $ 50
cable/phone $ 50
bus pass $ 50
food $100

You would have to earn at least $750 per month for basic living expenses.

If working 50 hours a week earning $10/hr, which I believe is possible. You could take home $500 per/week. If you were a semi-skilled player.

Very few people would choose this as a option, but I think it could work.


Mark in Kansas City

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

Sorry if this is a dumb question but ...

Isn't the rake at low limit games like 3/6 too high to be beatable?

I don't know what the rake at the 3/6 game is...

Here we have 2/5 limit which rakes 10% to a max of $5.
This means almost all hands get raked $5
Which works out to $500/100 hands.
Which means the average person pays 10bb/100 hands.

How can you beat this rake?
And when you add the expected tip of $1 the rake + tip = 12bb/100

Is there anyone who can win at small stakes long term (30,000 hands)

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

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Isn't the rake at low limit games like 3/6 too high to be beatable?

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If "beatable" means "wins at least $0.01 in the long run," then yes, 3/6 is beatable.

Just be wary of posters like lefty rosen who make remarks like, "You can easily beat a 3/6 live game for about 9 to 12 an hour."

As your math points out, it's nearly impossible to sustain a win rate greater than 1.5 bb/hr at a 3/6 game with a $5 rake.

Some more math:

At 3/6 full, a TAG should win about about 9% of hands in the long run. At a B&M casino with auto-shufflers, you should see about 35 hands/hr. So, you're winning 3 or 4 hands/hr.

If you win 3 hands/hr., you're paying $15 in rake fees. To earn $9/hr. profit, you need to make $24/hr. pre-rake.

$24/hr. --> $68/100 hands

So, you need to earn 11.3 bb/100 pre-rake to make $9/hr. at live 3/6.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I think the biggest problem with grinding out a monthly nut in 3/6 - 5/10 live limit games is you have almost no chance in ever moving up in limits. You would be using all your money just to survive.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

What I don't understand is why someone who is playing 3/6 live for a living wouldn't play higher in limits. Live play is so ridiculously terrible that it seems like someone good enough to easily beat the 3/6 game for 3 bb/100 should easily be able to beat a 9/18 game at a place like Commerce.

Making a living or a life
 

That is the real question. When you realize that the average teacher, cop, fireman in NYC only makes around 60,000 (takes home about 550 - 600 a week) I think it is possible to make that playing at 4/8 to 6/12. 3/6 would be tough but not impossible. Most of us I think could clear a 125 a day if we played super tight and treated it like a job and not a game. Super tight and being able to walk away when you get 200 up in front of you...then coming back the next day and the next etc. We are not talking about a great life...but a living - I think it is possible

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

If for some bizarre reason I had to make a living playing low-limit games then my game of choice would be Omaha8. At least in hold em most players have a passing idea what constitutes a good hand and what you should call with, even if they don't really stick to it. With the lack of TV coverage of Omaha and lack of books, no-one has the first clue playing live.

but it would still suck....

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

I think it comes down to you as a player. For the question, 3/6 seems to low to be making a living off of. There are cardrooms all over the US, but only a few select areas where a decent amount of new players (tourists) come in and play, refilling the tables each day.

Cost of living can be decent in a small apt, but ownership of a car is a much higher daily expense.

I think the bigger point is its the same ordeal, if you were playing 3/6 to 5/10, to 10/20, if this is a full time job, then it will be a grind regardless. You will have to work hard, constantly play well, and maintain your profit margin.

Because we all know, variance is a bitch.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

For some reason when you told this story a picture of this one guy from Hollywood park shot straight into my head. He is ALWAYS there. I've seen him play multiple limits (3/6-10/20)

He's seems to know everyone, and it really looks like he occasionally gets staked. He looks poor, and talks like a moron (abusive to dealers). He's also a fairly bad player (not terrible but very weak). Anyway, maybe its the same guy, maybe not.

Sometimes my mind gets to wondering about these things.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I will make a stab at this. I live in Kansas City and play about 15 hours a week at the local card room. So far in my very brief poker career, I have averaged 13.36 p/hr between the 3/6 and 4/8 for over 300 hours. I know the sample is small, but I just started.

I agree with the posters previously, the only 'rounders' who are doing this fall into four catergories. 1. goverment scammers, who receive a monthly check. 2. Househusbands who wife is supporting them. 3. Fleas who live with mom/dad. 4. Students.

Could you live off just playing 3/6 to 4/8 maybe. But it would suck. Assuming I quit my job and decided I would want to try this lifestyle. Here is what I came up with.

I would live in downtown KC, with no car. But the city bus will take you to the casinos. So you could live without a car. My breakdown on expenses.

decent apt. DT KC $500
gas/electric $ 50
cable/phone $ 50
bus pass $ 50
food $100

You would have to earn at least $750 per month for basic living expenses.

If working 50 hours a week earning $10/hr, which I believe is possible. You could take home $500 per/week. If you were a semi-skilled player.

Very few people would choose this as a option, but I think it could work.


Mark in Kansas City

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How are you eating regularly on $100 a month? Unless you get a lot of comps at your seat, I don't know that that's realistic. I don't know alot of the other expenses of living downtown KC (I live in the 'burbs), but this seems rediculous. I know that I like things like beer, eating out, etc., but even just going to the store and getting PB&J will run you more than a bill per month.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

You will earn a comp rate .75 a hour at Harrahs, more if you are diamond, or platinum card holder on multiple points day. Earning .75 per hours X 50 hr = 37.5 in comps.

So you could earn a lunch buffet for everyday of the week you played. If I were to put myself in this situation, I would become a diamond card holder, which now you can get into the diamond lounge and eat some small snacks for free.

As mentioned in the above example I would not a have a car. So zero expense. As for beer and entertainment. Well since I do not drink, that expense would be zero. Entertainment, you could rent movies from the Kansas City Public Library downtown, and use the computers for your internet access.

As for grocery bills at a $100 dollars a month. That is easy. Because I currently do it now.

Of course you would have to give up fast food and eating out period. And make everything from scratch. But it is possible. Of course not many people would enjoy this lifestyle.

I believe the most difficult part would be ovecoming the rake, and the ability to never go on tilt. Like I said in my first post, since I only have 300 hours in so far, I am not convinced that the game could be beaten over the long run.

But living on the theo of 2000 a month in downtown KC can be done. Because I am doing it now owning a condo and have a car.

Mark in Kansas City

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

ramen noodles baby

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

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ramen noodles baby

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mmmmm....ramen.

Re: Making a living in live 3/6 games??
 

well i guess you could do this if you had no life or girlfriend. actually this is the case for most of you so it is possible.

I could make a living on $1/2.
 

When I go to play $1/2 no limit in Atlantic City, I bring in profits of about $350-450 in a period ranging between 4-6 hours. Taking the 6-hour period, and even saying I make $300 per trip, then assuming a 40-hour work week 52 weeks/year, that would be $104,000/year.

Re: I could make a living on $1/2.
 

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When I go to play $1/2 no limit in Atlantic City, I bring in profits of about $350-450 in a period ranging between 4-6 hours. Taking the 6-hour period, and even saying I make $300 per trip, then assuming a 40-hour work week 52 weeks/year, that would be $104,000/year.

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This would be a very unrealistic number to maintain. Variance will catch up with you even in a room full of fish.

Re: I could make a living on $1/2.
 

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When I go to play $1/2 no limit in Atlantic City, I bring in profits of about $350-450 in a period ranging between 4-6 hours. Taking the 6-hour period, and even saying I make $300 per trip, then assuming a 40-hour work week 52 weeks/year, that would be $104,000/year.

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Of course, the OP said Limit, which is a totally different game.

There was a nice little thread a while ago in here about playing 1/2(I think, it was low limits) live NL for a living, but I suck at the search function and don't know what words to search for anyway. If I find it, maybe I'll link it here.

Re: I could make a living on $1/2.
 

Oh wow, I completely missed that this was limit...thanks for correcting me. And in that case, I do agree that it would be impossible to make a living off such a game. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]