How to respond?
 

I was in a 10+1 at party, early in the game with no reads. I was determined to play a tight game. I was wondering about how people think I should have played the following preflop situation (perhaps it is very easy but I am not sure):

Seat 1:(800)
Seat 3:(830)
Seat 4:(785)
Seat 5: hero (800)
Seat 7:(2450)
Seat 8:(785)
Seat 9:(800)
Seat 10:(750)
Seat 4 posts small blind (10)
hero posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ As, Kh ]
seat 7 folds.
seat 8 folds.
seat 9 folds.
seat 10 calls (15)
seat 1 folds.
seat 3 raises (55) to 55
seat 4 raises (85) to 95

hero?

Re: How to respond?
 

Fold or shove, depending on how the $11s play these days. From what I've heard, a shove is totally ok here.

Re: How to respond?
 

If you think seat 3 will re-raise, I'd fold. If you don't think so, I'd call and see if I catch an A or K on the flop.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Fold or shove, depending on how the $11s play these days. From what I've heard, a shove is totally ok here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I personally will fold, mainly because at my current level ($5 SNGS on stars) I believe I can outplay my opponents and finish in the money the majority of the time anyway, so doubling up here isn't really necessary, and I've rather have 800 chips than none at all.

Re: How to respond?
 

I suppose shoving is OK too, I usually don't do it though. Maybe if the pot were a little bigger.

Re: How to respond?
 

If you're going to play, then push. You want to see all five cards. AK push against standard range is +1.2 BB but only +.4 BB with a call (considering FE).

Re: How to respond?
 

Granted I haven't played the $11s in a while, but from what I remember this is usually a sign that there's a pocket pair out there. I don't think there's enough dead money to justify a coinflip here (I could be wrong though) from a prize pool equity perspective, so I tend to go along with splashpot's first post that if you don't feel that seat 3 will reraise I'd call and look at a flop. This is hard to judge, so I figure I'd probably just call given a typical opponent.

-SonnyJay

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you think seat 3 will re-raise, I'd fold. If you don't think so, I'd call and see if I catch an A or K on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the reraier only minraised, so that sends up a few flags. But it is the 10's so it could mean anything.

I'd call this, if it gets popped again it's going to be an all in by someone, so you can call here and fold to a push.

Re: How to respond?
 

Is there a way to calculate EV at the table (against standard hands)? I know of the online calculator, but it is not too useful in the heat of the game!! Do people just memorise the EV for each hand in a given situation?

Oh and I am sure the advice is right. I called, the flop fell:

[ 3c, 2s, Jh ]

Seat 3 bet 250 and I folded.

I couldn't bear folding AKo preflop, but I didn't have the guts to push and risk busting out of the tourney in the third hand..

In the end, I finished second.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't bear folding AKo preflop, but I didn't have the guts to push and risk busting out of the tourney in the third hand..

[/ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't think like this. Folding AK is perfectly fine in some situations. And it being the 3rd hand should have absolutely no impact on your decision.

Re: How to respond?
 

I fold. Pass up on a maybe not even +ev situation to preserve chips for bubble time where I can outplay my opponents.

Re: How to respond?
 

Nah you can't calculate at table. After you use poker stove a while (for post game analysis) and read the numerous articles (especially on AK), you just remember the numbers.

Re: How to respond?
 

This is as tricky as things get at the 11's. People make all sorts of inappropriate min-reraises with things like KQ and AJ because they're still in a limit Holdem mentality. Anyway, I'd just push all-in here. Folding isn't too bad either. calling isn't necessarily bad, but it's probably not the best way to get value out of your hand.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is as tricky as things get at the 11's. People make all sorts of inappropriate min-reraises with things like KQ and AJ because they're still in a limit Holdem mentality. Anyway, I'd just push all-in here. Folding isn't too bad either. calling isn't necessarily bad, but it's probably not the best way to get value out of your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Slim is right on, here. My default move at the 11s here was to always just push. You will get shown Ax where x is lower than K enough to make this move very profitable in the long run in the 11s. Like slim said though, other options are not terrible.

Re: How to respond?
 

I agree that on PP I would have pushed it. AK plays best when you see all the cards. However, if this was PokerStars, I would have called and folded to the reraise. Not much harm to my stack. This is a good hand that illustrates the differences between the two sites.

CJ

Re: How to respond?
 

I'm torn between all three options. My original thought was to call, but the large % of your stack makes this push/fold. Are you more concerned with your hourly rate than your ROI? If so, I push this. Otherwise, not really sure.

Re: How to respond?
 

I think I'd push just because I just saw seat 7 triple up in the 1st 2 hands and I'm the jealous type who doesn't like to be outdone.

Re: How to respond?
 

Push. You won't believe what sorts of crazy crap you'll see calling at this level.

Re: How to respond?
 

calling would be terrible.

folding is only an option if you never intend to play poker again.

Push all your chips in the middle.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
calling would be terrible.


[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Because you're not closing the action?

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call and look at a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's the wrong play. You're hitting flop 31% of the time. And when you do hit, most of the time your bet is not getting called with the A or K on the board.

You win more pushing because you get to see all 5 cards (43% of time A or K hits by river) and you get the opponents money in the pot. Add the fold equity, and you gain 1.4 BB (push) versus .2 BB (call) against typical hand range.

Re: How to respond?
 

That's one reason. To me the main reason is that he'll likely go to the flop with the pot equal to more than half his remaining stack <insert my normal rant about the stupid structure at Party>. Since the flop will miss him more than half the time, he'll either have to fold after committing more than 10% of his stack or pot-commit his entire stack.

On the other hand, if he pushes and they fold, he increases his stack by 25%. Not to mention that THIS IS PARTY (sorry, didn't mean to yell), and he could get called by hands he dominates.

I was being a bit hyperbolic in my original reply about folding. AK at level 1 is always a pain in the a$$, but in this stupid, stupid, stupid 800 chip structure, when you get action, you have to go for it.

AK is a hand that wants to see all 5 board cards. It's the 3rd hardest hand to dominate. There's nothing that says he doesn't have the best hand right now. This is a situation where I'm perfectly happy to bust out because if I get called and hit, my chances of winning go way up.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
calling would be terrible.

folding is only an option if you never intend to play poker again.

Push all your chips in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is everyone so scared of seeing a flop. god forbid you ahve to play poker. holla

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Oh and I am sure the advice is right. I called, the flop fell:

[ 3c, 2s, Jh ]

Seat 3 bet 250 and I folded.

I couldn't bear folding AKo preflop, but I didn't have the guts to push and risk busting out of the tourney in the third hand..

In the end, I finished second.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're leaving out part of the story -- it looks like seat 3 bet after the SB, and BB (you) checked on the flop, yes? Then I'm wondering about calling over 10% of your stack without taking at least a stab at the pot on the flop.

Question for the group: Is the conventional wisdom here, given that he called, that he should check or make some kind of probe bet on the flop?

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
calling would be terrible.

folding is only an option if you never intend to play poker again.

Push all your chips in the middle.

[/ QUOTE ]

why is everyone so scared of seeing a flop. god forbid you ahve to play poker. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm never scared of seeing a flop. I live on post-flop play. The problem here, I see, is you're OOP against 2 other players who may or may not be putting you in a vise. There just aren't many options here for post flop play.

CJ

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Oh and I am sure the advice is right. I called, the flop fell:

[ 3c, 2s, Jh ]

Seat 3 bet 250 and I folded.

I couldn't bear folding AKo preflop, but I didn't have the guts to push and risk busting out of the tourney in the third hand..

In the end, I finished second.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're leaving out part of the story -- it looks like seat 3 bet after the SB, and BB (you) checked on the flop, yes? Then I'm wondering about calling over 10% of your stack without taking at least a stab at the pot on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right.. my mistake. It was the SB who bet(seat 4 not seat 3).

Re: How to respond?
 

Callin definately isn't terrible. The other options aren't bad. But calling isn't bad either.

Re: How to respond?
 

This is either a call or a fold. Pushing is pretty bad. The whole mentality of the 11s are full of donks so now I can play worse is not very helpful to anyone, particularly those players playing the 11s. -EV is -EV.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
In the end, I finished second

[/ QUOTE ]
This is why pushing here sucks. Wait a bit. U did OK.

Re: How to respond?
 

It's +EV to get called by KQs and AJo.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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I'd call and look at a flop.


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That's the wrong play. You're hitting flop 31% of the time. And when you do hit, most of the time your bet is not getting called with the A or K on the board.

You win more pushing because you get to see all 5 cards (43% of time A or K hits by river) and you get the opponents money in the pot. Add the fold equity, and you gain 1.4 BB (push) versus .2 BB (call) against typical hand range.

[/ QUOTE ]

Research. Rethink. Rewrite.

Re: How to respond?
 

[ QUOTE ]
It's +EV to get called by KQs and AJo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true, its also -EV to get called by 22+.