Making the next leap
 

I have a long-term winning record at all major sites. Starting at each site with $1000, I have built independent bankrolls and been successful at all limits up to 15-30, on many major sites - UltimateBet, FullTilt, Party, Empire, Pacific, and Paradise. I have, over the last 3 months, been gradually moving up to play 30-60 and 50-100 at UB, Party, Pacific, and Full Tilt, and subsequently dropped about 15k. (yes, I dropped 200 BBs on Pacific Poker.)

I do feel that I'm running bad, but I'm also tilting and just trying to get to showdown with any Ace-high and pocket pair hands. In other words, I've stopped thinking, and just been playing on auto-pilot.

I'm also trying to break through and really learn to conquer the higher online limits. 15-30 income is nice, but there must be more money to be made. I play for a living while in law school, but only play 2-3 tables.

Any advice? Is this just burnout?

What do the successful 30-60 and up players have that I don't? I would put my intelligence up against anyone's, but my poker skills are certainly not top tier. How can I get them there?


EDIT: I played almost exclusively LHE full ring games, and most sites' 30-60 and higher are shorthanded. Hence, getting to showdown with A-high and PP hands are from 2-5 handed tables. I read the shorthanded section of HPFAP often enough, but I just don't win shorthanded at high limits.

Re: Making the next leap
 

I'm not an expert, but you got to stop "just trying to get to showdown with any Ace-high and pocket pair hands."

Soh

Re: Making the next leap
 

Post has been edited to include the fact that those hands are usually begin HU or 3-4 handed.

Re: Making the next leap
 

Afraid there is no secret formula to beating the higher limit games. And no one is really going to be able to offer any insights or advice without knowing anything about how you play in general.

Re: Making the next leap
 

If you are playing very short, like hu to 4 handed, don't play more than 2 tables if your confidence is down. Sometimes the speed of play makes it harder to make decisions and then you tend to call down more with ace high etc, without seeing a more complete picture of what is going on in the game, etc. . .

Re: Making the next leap
 

Playing 30/60 shorthanded, dropping 200 BB is nothing. Downswings like that are going to happen no matter how good you are. As long as you can spot at least one player at your table making easily identifiable errors, you can profit at 30/60 simply by playing ABC poker. Just keep cool and stay off tilt and avoid any table where you can't find fish.

Re: Making the next leap
 

Trying playing in the 10/20 6max games at party, that should go a long way to help your shorthanded game, also the games are very beatable. If you are truely having problems with 6max maybe even try dropping down to 5/10 6max.

Also make sure you are reading the HUSH forum as well.

Re: Making the next leap
 

[ QUOTE ]
Afraid there is no secret formula to beating the higher limit games. And no one is really going to be able to offer any insights or advice without knowing anything about how you play in general.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, this is obvious (but seeing as obvious things often need pointing out, it is appreciated).

How would I get people to know how I play in general? Exchange hand histories? hire a coach (i can't afford to pay ridiculous sums to a coach)? I've posted hands here in the past, but i usually have trouble figuring out which hands to post because i make decisions so fast, right or wrong. I rarely truly think for a long time. If the price is right and I have a reasonable (read: +EV) shot at winning I call. If I feel I'm best and will get called if I raise, I raise. With more complicated plays (free cards, check-raising to knock out middlemen, bluffs, and semibluffs) thrown in when I think they'll work. These are standard plays at full games that don't always do good at ring games because hand ranges are so wide.

Re: Making the next leap
 

There was a great PDF document circulating a while back that was basically a HUSH primer but mostly for 6-handed, which I'm slightly more comfortable with (thanks to reading it a few times). I'm talking super-short.

Re: Making the next leap
 

I feel better than average, but I also find myself making serious mistakes. Calling too much because I feel I'm going to get run over if I don't have backbone is a big one I think.

Re: Making the next leap
 

I've found the biggest differences at both limit and NL is that the winners in the bigger games are generally much better hand-readers and they have a much better idea than most about their true equity in a pot vs. a reasonable set of opponent hand ranges. Work on doing that quickly and accurately. Also, raise more and fold more.

Re: Making the next leap
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, raise more and fold more.

[/ QUOTE ]


I know I'm not even near the level you're talking about but as I get better and better I see myself finding more places I can fold for the above reasons. Stuff like judging that my equity and the pot are too small to protect my hand, or that I know that the guy behind me has 3 outs at most and the guy betting probably has me beat and I'm better off calling.

am I going to start playing more aggressively as I get better?

Re: Making the next leap
 

Maybe post some of your key stats (VPIP/PFR/AF/WSD/W$SD/ and your blind stealing/defense stats)

Break them up according to number of players. 6 or more and 5 or less.

This probably won't help any of us spot subtle post flop problems, but any glaring leaks should be apparent.

trying to get to showdown....
 

to tell you the truth i dont see this as a bad thing in general. peeling and turn raising with air HU is epidemic on line and id rather just not play that game show down my hand and move on. ive never seen anyone on here post a line that beats: bet/raise the flop, check the turn call the river HU w/ unimproved AK or small pair against an aggressive blind.

in my experience the amount of money you make inducing a river bluff outweighs what you lose giving a free card and lets you avoid getting cr'd on the turn.

out of position after a 3 bet i check raise the flop or turn or river when ever my opponent bets then i follow up and will fold to a raise.

these situations arent what im looking for on line i just skate past them. the money is made when you hold a hand and then the donk cr's u on the turn.

note; if an ace flops i play faster because even the 2+2 super spews wont cr w/ air on an ace high board against a raiser

Re: Making the next leap
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've found the biggest differences at both limit and NL is that the winners in the bigger games are generally much better hand-readers and they have a much better idea than most about their true equity in a pot vs. a reasonable set of opponent hand ranges. Work on doing that quickly and accurately. Also, raise more and fold more.

[/ QUOTE ]

As usual, El D.'s advice is spot on here. That is not to say that i am the best at it, but my second shot at 30-60 was much more sucessful than my first, and that was probably the biggest reason why. I also feel that there is a very significant jump between 30-60 and higher limits on most sites, and the sucessful players at these limits have a phenomal understanding of their hand value in relation to the baord and previous action, and can play it accordingly.

Re: Making the next leap
 

players at higher limits think more. they know when the board is ragged and it's likely you missed. if they catch you folding to a lot of turn raises, they will start raising you more on the turn. if you always wait for the turn HU to raise, they will catch on and begin to fold. if you tend to bet a lot of flops and check/fold a lot of turns HU out of position, they will peel a lot of flops hoping you check/fodl the turn. if you raise every flop with a flush draw or OESD, they will call you down more with crappier hands.

the best thing to do against these sorts of players is to figure out exactly HOW someone plays. i think 30/60 is probably the first limit where my opponent's hand is far far more important than mine. i am constantly being put to the test. i miss most flops and turns, so making key calldowns in large pots is a huge portion of my EV.


i highly suggest making in depth notes on every player, either mentally or using the "notes" option. it's surprising how accurate your reads can be sometimes.