Any eight will win!
 

I am playing at a club in Dallas. $1/$2 NL cash game; complete donkfest. I have K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the button. The game is deepstacked and plays like a 2/5. I raise limpers to $25. One elderly gentleman calls. Flop is 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checks to me, I bet pot($60), am called. Turn is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Villain open pushes for $135. I instacall and immediately expose my KK; people who don't show right away aggravate me. River is 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Villain thinks for about 10 seconds, makes a motion to muck his hand, and as he is about to muck, some fat retarded moron blurts out: "Any eight will win!" Villian realizes that while his 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] did not make a flush or two pair or trips, wait!, it makes a straight! Villain apologizes stating that he did not intend a slowroll and just didnt see the straight, and exposes his hand and scoops the $450 pot.
I honestly believe Villian misread his hand and didn't intentionally slowroll. I also honestly believe had that fat retarded moron not said a word, Villain would have mucked. The floorman correctly ruled that the pot belonged to Villain. As Villain starts pulling in what would have been your chips, had fat retarded moron not said a word you look over at F.R.M. and ......Your action?

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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I honestly believe Villian misread his hand and didn't intentionally slowroll. I also honestly believe had that fat retarded moron not said a word, Villain would have mucked. The floorman correctly ruled that the pot belonged to Villain. As Villain starts pulling in what would have been your chips, had fat retarded moron not said a word you look over at F.R.M. and ......Your action?

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I don't really see what this guy did that was so wrong? It's not like he said something to kill your action as all the betting was complete. My action... laugh it off and re-buy.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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The floorman correctly ruled that the pot belonged to Villain.

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You called the floor over for this?

Re: Any eight will win!
 

You don't see what he did wrong? It is absolutely reprehensible to point out when the board contains straights, 4 flushes, quads, or anything. It's one player to a hand. The dealer and/or floor should warn the "fat moron" not to do this and then he should be taken out and shot.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

I would accept defeat, but make sure that F.R.M doesn't say anything else when people are involved in a pot.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

Buy him a sandwich and shove it down his throat.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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You don't see what he did wrong? It is absolutely reprehensible to point out when the board contains straights, 4 flushes, quads, or anything. It's one player to a hand. The dealer and/or floor should warn the "fat moron" not to do this and then he should be taken out and shot.

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You're absolutely right! If there's still players involved in a hand then noone not involved should speak if the action is still live. In this case however the involved parties are all-in and it is the showdown. Remarking that any 8 will make a straight affects nothing accept for causing villian in this case to read his hand correctly.

What if I turned my hand face-up on a 4-flush board and said, "you win I just have A-K" and another player remarked, "no you have the flush".

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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I would accept defeat, but make sure that F.R.M. is kicked in the nuts, then taken out and shot.

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FYP

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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What if I turned my hand face-up on a 4-flush board and said, "you win I just have A-K" and another player remarked, "no you have the flush".

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This is 100% different. In your case, the villian tables his cards... cards ALWAYS speak so he wins the pot.

How would you feel, if the guy was about to muck his cards for you, but they guy next to him said.. "What are you doing?? You have a flush!!" This violates the 1 person per hand rule and the guy telling the villian this should be kicked in the ass.... errrrr NUTS!

You see the difference here?

Re: Any eight will win!
 

I really don't think the one player per hand rule applies once all action is complete. Obviously I'd be pissed if say a 3rd spade came out on the river and some guy goes "there's the flush" because that could affect the action I receive. However in this case all action is complete and F.R.M. is just saying any 8 makes a straight. He's not costing hero any bets here as all the money is already in the pot.

As for the case where the hands are tabled, if a mistake is made awarding the pot it's everyones responsibility to point it out.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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I really don't think the one player per hand rule applies once all action is complete.

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Apparently, you're not understanding the relatively simple fact that action is not complete until the pot is awarded.

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Obviously I'd be pissed if say a 3rd spade came out on the river and some guy goes "there's the flush" because that could affect the action I receive.

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I'm pissed whenever someone who is NOT INVOLVED IN THE HAND (as in the OP's case) says anything about the hand that could affect it.

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However in this case all action is complete and F.R.M. is just saying any 8 makes a straight. He's not costing hero any bets here as all the money is already in the pot.

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He's not in the hand - why don't you get this? The only people who have any business discussing the hand prior to the awarding of the pot are the players who still have cards and the dealers. Not rail birds, not other players, no one else.

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As for the case where the hands are tabled, if a mistake is made awarding the pot it's everyones responsibility to point it out.

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No. You're adding something here that wasn't present in the case that was being discussed. In your example, the hands are already tabled, whereas in the OP, the statement from a person not involved in the hand *caused* the hand to be tabled and the OP lost the hand. There's a big difference.

F.R.M. should have S.T.F.U.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Apparently, you're not understanding the relatively simple fact that action is not complete until the pot is awarded.

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Actually as far as I'm concerned action for round is complete once the betting ends. In this case there was no betting on the river since one player was all-in so they advanced to the showdown.

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No. You're adding something here that wasn't present in the case that was being discussed. In your example, the hands are already tabled, whereas in the OP, the statement from a person not involved in the hand *caused* the hand to be tabled and the OP lost the hand. There's a big difference.

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I don't think these cases are as different as you think. If you really think that one player to a hand applies at the showdown then what does it matter if cards are face up or not. By your reasoning if a player tabled his hand and mis-declared it, and the dealer began to push the pot to his opponent, the only ones who could say anything would be the active players.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Actually as far as I'm concerned action for round is complete once the betting ends.



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So, you bet the River, my neighbor calls. You show down your straight. Neighbor is about to muck his hand, and I say "Don't you have a flush?". He realizes that he has back-doored a flush and takes the pot. You are OK with me speaking up?

Re: Any eight will win!
 

yes absolutely actions over you can say what you want.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

I would politely explain the one player to a hand rule to FRM, and explain loudly enough that if someone is stupid enough to muck a winning hand, that's their own damn fault.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

Your thinking is quite ridiculous. This is LIVE poker, there is more to the game than betting. Part of the game is observing what is going on, reading the board, and acting on all of the information available. If you fail to do so then you are not playing as well as someone else and your results should be effected by that.

There is a major difference in tabling your hand at a showdown because you believe you have a winner and misreading the board and mucking your hand. This is part of the ACTION and part of your job as a player. ACTION in live poker is any task performed at the table, including properly showing down your hand.

Under the rules in most cardrooms (all that I know of)if in a tournament you told a player he should recheck his hand at the river to see if he may have a winner during a hand in which you were no longer involved you would be given a penalty for breaking a rule. If this occurred in a cash game you would be reprimanded and warned by the floor that this is not acceptable behavior. I'm not sure where you get your ideas from but they really only work in an online game where the computer handles the showdown and it is impossible to accidentally muck a winner.

A hand is not complete until the pot has been awarded AND the next deal has begun. If a player tables his cards at a showdown it is everyone's ethical responsibility (as stated in most cardroom rule books) to make sure the pot is correctly awarded, if a player has not tabled his hand at a showdown it is everyone's responsiblity to keep there mouths shut about the hand until the pot has been awarded and the next deal has begun. There is no grey area there. This is how every poker room works under their rulebook's that I have ever seen or played in.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Your thinking is quite ridiculous. This is LIVE poker.

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Rather than my extensive response above, I should have responded to this guy in this manner.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

I can understand why you assume I play internet poker, but most of my play is at live low limit 3-6/4-8 tables. I've played for 2 years at dozens of cardrooms/casinos and I've never seen anyone over react so much to a players comments at the showdown.

I've also never seen anyone getting a warning for commenting about a hand during the showdown but before pot is awarded. Hell at the limits I play it's hard enough to stop guys from saying "darn it I folded ..." when the flop comes rags.

I have to go to lunch I'll post more later.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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I can understand why you assume I play internet poker, but most of my play is at live low limit 3-6/4-8 tables. I've played for 2 years at dozens of cardrooms/casinos and I've never seen anyone over react so much to a players comments at the showdown.

I've also never seen anyone getting a warning for commenting about a hand during the showdown but before pot is awarded. Hell at the limits I play it's hard enough to stop guys from saying "darn it I folded ..." when the flop comes rags.

I have to go to lunch I'll post more later.

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Kaeser, your experience is from limit, where it's only costing someone one more bet. This is a $450 pot. And regardless of the money, you're wrong. There are two players involved in this hand; until the pot is pushed to someone and hands are mucked, it is positively inappropriate for anyone else to comment on the decision at hand.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

This guys gets his ass kicked in the parking lot where I come from. That is like someone saying in front of his buddy who is trying to pick up a hot chick and having success, "Dude, glad to hear you are finally over the Clap".

It is your responsibility as a live player to understand what is going on at ALL TIMES. If you sleep it and dont expose, you lose.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

Since everyone seems to think that this is how the rule applies I'll concede the point. However I'd like to offer a few examples I've seen where it's the same situation where a player has commented on the hand before the pot is awarded and get your take on them. I'm not trying to argue or flame I've just never seen a floor called in this situation.

Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".

Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

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In most tournaments I've played in, once it is heads up action with one of the players all-in, the cards are tabled, thus ending action. In live play, this is not the case. In most places I've played at, cards do not have to be tabled, and action is not over until the pot is awarded.

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Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".


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Again, once the cards are tabled, action is over. Cards should be pushed to the person with the best hand. I think you are misunderstanding the OP. In the OP's case, cards were not yet tabled when a player not in the hand made a comment regarding the nature of the board. This player's comment influenced the outcome of the hand. This is unacceptable.

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Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

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If the second player (of the two active players) is yet to muck his hand, this comment is unacceptable.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

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In tournament play when there is no further action and players are heads up many tournaments require the hands be turned up in that case it makes no difference whatsoever. If the hands are not required to be turned up though this should not occur it is not too bad because the information revealed is not likely to effect play.

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Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".


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There is nothing wrong with this all the hands have already been tabled, there is no discretionary action which this comment could now effect.

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Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

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Again there should not be any comment until all hands are tabled or folded, but if this occurs the information revealed here is not the sort of information likely to effect play.

So while your examples in 1 and 3 may involve talk that should not be going on, they are relatively harmless and only a nit would object.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Since everyone seems to think that this is how the rule applies I'll concede the point. However I'd like to offer a few examples I've seen where it's the same situation where a player has commented on the hand before the pot is awarded and get your take on them. I'm not trying to argue or flame I've just never seen a floor called in this situation.

Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".

Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

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Example 1: moot point in a tournament hands must be turned face up on the table once a player is all-in in a heads up pot. Cards are tabled, cards speak.

Example 2: Again moot point since from your description all three players have tabled their hands so all three hands would be live, and cards speak.

Example 3: Again has nothing to do with what we are discussing but an inactive player no longer in a pot should not reveal information about their hand. Player should be warned not to do this and action taken if he continues to do so.


You have chosen three examples here that have zero relevance to what we are discussing. Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Mucking is an action.

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This is the key point regarding the OP's case. Action is not yet over, when a person no longer in the hand made a comment. Unacceptable.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

The best hand won at showdown. It seems like you are only mad because it was a large pot.

I agree that people that are not in the hand should not talk about the hand, but it is possible that he checked his hand one more time and saw the straight.

The best thing to do is remind the person that spoke out of turn that talking about the hand in progress is not supposed to be done, rebuy and move on remembering that the eldery gentleman called a raise preflop with 82s. And in the future do not post thinly veiled bad beat posts here.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

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This guy should be kicked repeatedly in the nuts and should receive a penalty. This happened in this years WSOP many times with the most well known one being the Matasow and Sheik guy debacle. He didn't even "say" anything and got penalized and Mike got penalized for saying STFU. "All" he did was bang the table and was noticably upset that he mucked preflop. This should show you the severity of this type of action.
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Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".

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No problem here. Everyone has tabled their hands and the hand is over. The pot goes to the best hand. This is similar to saying.. "Man, I can't believe no one had the flush on that hand 10 minutes ago." Either case, the hand is essentially over, and the best hand wins. In the OP case, the hand was not over, as the other guy was still yet to act (even if it was just deciding whether to muck or flip his cards). His decision has impact still. If he flipped em and said.. darn, your straight beats my two pair, then his cards speak and if he has a flush he wins..
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Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

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again.. this is similar to the first hand. "Winner shows" implies that he already won the pot and the hand was over. And no one else can claim the pot.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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This guy should be kicked repeatedly in the nuts and should receive a penalty. This happened in this years WSOP many times with the most well known one being the Matasow and Sheik guy debacle. He didn't even "say" anything and got penalized and Mike got penalized for saying STFU. "All" he did was bang the table and was noticably upset that he mucked preflop. This should show you the severity of this type of action.

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I think in that case there was still action when the player banged the table. In this case everyone else seems to be agreeing that since all active hands were tabled that action was complete and the comment was harmless. I do agree that one of the more annoying aspect of live play is how other players verbally or non-verbally indicate that they would have hit the flop hard.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

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Note in my ealier reply I repeatedly said "and the next deal has begun." Many rulebooks regard this as the point of no return. If a mistake was made in the award of a pot, incorrect ammount placed out for a call, misrepresented hand, or any other anomally has occurred in the play of a hand, action can be taken until the next deal has begun. Once the next deal is underway the previous hand is over. That is truly the mark of the end of one hand and the begining of the next. So to the letter of the law nothing should be said about the previous hand until this point.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

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Note in my ealier reply I repeatedly said "and the next deal has begun." Many rulebooks regard this as the point of no return. If a mistake was made in the award of a pot, incorrect ammount placed out for a call, misrepresented hand, or any other anomally has occurred in the play of a hand, action can be taken until the next deal has begun. Once the next deal is underway the previous hand is over. That is truly the mark of the end of one hand and the begining of the next. So to the letter of the law nothing should be said about the previous hand until this point.

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Can you give an example of where after all hands have been tabled or mucked it would be a prioblem for a player to comment on the hand before the next hand is dealt? I think you will really have to struglle to find such an example (not including making comments that are inappropriate when made at any time)

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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What if I turned my hand face-up on a 4-flush board and said, "you win I just have A-K" and another player remarked, "no you have the flush".


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This is an entirely different situation. Once a hand is tabled it is tabled and the best hand will win at showdown.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Example 1: moot point in a tournament hands must be turned face up on the table once a player is all-in in a heads up pot. Cards are tabled, cards speak.

Example 2: Again moot point since from your description all three players have tabled their hands so all three hands would be live, and cards speak.

Example 3: Again has nothing to do with what we are discussing but an inactive player no longer in a pot should not reveal information about their hand. Player should be warned not to do this and action taken if he continues to do so.


You have chosen three examples here that have zero relevance to what we are discussing. Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Note in my ealier reply I repeatedly said "and the next deal has begun." Many rulebooks regard this as the point of no return. If a mistake was made in the award of a pot, incorrect ammount placed out for a call, misrepresented hand, or any other anomally has occurred in the play of a hand, action can be taken until the next deal has begun. Once the next deal is underway the previous hand is over. That is truly the mark of the end of one hand and the begining of the next. So to the letter of the law nothing should be said about the previous hand until this point.

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Well then by the letter of the law the first 2 examples I gave are certainly in violation of the 1PTAH rule. Although as you pointed out anything a player says would have zero relevance to the outcome of the hand.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

This was a response to Kaeser's repeated claim that a hand is "over" when betting is completed.

But if you would like an example of where this rule comes into play:

Players A & B table there hands at a showdown. The dealer awards player A the pot, kills both hands and the board. It is then discovered that it should have been a split pot (say 2 pair with a shared board kicker). Player C (who was not involved in the hand) says wait it was a split pot, others at the table agree. Floor is called,he questions the table, determines that it was clearly a split pot, awards half the pot to player B. This is a fairly standard situation. In rulebooks I have seen this ruling would not be possible if the next hand has begun. Once the next hand begins no corrections in previous hands may be made.

From Robert's Rules - Section 2

5. A ruling may be made regarding a pot if it has been requested before the next deal starts (or before the game either ends or changes to another table). Otherwise, the result of a deal must stand. The first riffle of the shuffle marks the start for a deal.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Well then by the letter of the law the first 2 examples I gave are certainly in violation of the 1PTAH rule. Although as you pointed out anything a player says would have zero relevance to the outcome of the hand.

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Well if you want to truly argue semantics there are multiple milestons that occur during the conclusion of a hand.

-the completion of betting
-the completion of the last action
-the award of a pot
-the completion of the deal marked by the beginning of the next deal

At each of these points there are do's and don'ts. There are specific rules that utilize each of these points as governing moments of a hand. If you would like a better understanding of cardroom practices and rules I simply suggest you read Robert's Rules of Poker by Bob Ciaffone they are (IMO) the most well written and comprehensive set of cardroom rules available. They also contain some gems you may wish to equate yourself with:


POKER ETIQUETTE

The following actions are improper, and grounds for warning, suspending, or barring a violator:

Making statements or taking action that could unfairly influence the course of play, whether or not the offender is involved in the pot.

Revealing the contents of a live hand in a multihanded pot before the betting is complete.

Revealing the contents of a folded hand before the betting is complete.

Do not divulge the contents of a hand during a deal even to someone not in the pot, so you do not leave any possibility of the information being transmitted to an active player.

Reading a hand for another player at the showdown before it has been placed faceup on the table.

Telling anyone to turn a hand faceup at the showdown.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

Oh I'm not trying to argue semantics. I'm just seeing where the line is drawn on this as I've been playing for 2 years and never seen it come up.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

TO STFU and move onto the next hand.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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This was a response to Kaeser's repeated claim that a hand is "over" when betting is completed.

But if you would like an example of where this rule comes into play:

Players A & B table there hands at a showdown. The dealer awards player A the pot, kills both hands and the board. It is then discovered that it should have been a split pot (say 2 pair with a shared board kicker). Player C (who was not involved in the hand) says wait it was a split pot, others at the table agree. Floor is called,he questions the table, determines that it was clearly a split pot, awards half the pot to player B. This is a fairly standard situation. In rulebooks I have seen this ruling would not be possible if the next hand has begun. Once the next hand begins no corrections in previous hands may be made.

From Robert's Rules - Section 2

5. A ruling may be made regarding a pot if it has been requested before the next deal starts (or before the game either ends or changes to another table). Otherwise, the result of a deal must stand. The first riffle of the shuffle marks the start for a deal.

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And so you put forth the example of a hand being mistakenly awarded, but that doesn't fit, because in that case a player who sees the mistake SHOULD speak up immediately.

The hand is over because their is no more discretionary action at this point.

The rule you cite is irrelevant to the discussion.

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

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Note in my ealier reply I repeatedly said "and the next deal has begun." Many rulebooks regard this as the point of no return. If a mistake was made in the award of a pot, incorrect ammount placed out for a call, misrepresented hand, or any other anomally has occurred in the play of a hand, action can be taken until the next deal has begun. Once the next deal is underway the previous hand is over. That is truly the mark of the end of one hand and the begining of the next. So to the letter of the law nothing should be said about the previous hand until this point.

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Can you give an example of where after all hands have been tabled or mucked it would be a prioblem for a player to comment on the hand before the next hand is dealt? I think you will really have to struglle to find such an example (not including making comments that are inappropriate when made at any time)

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The board plays. Some players turn up their hands some players chose to muck. The players that muck are not entitled to any of the pot becsaue they have not made a claim to the pot (note this is differenet than someoen stating "I play the board" and then throwing away their cards).

Re: Any eight will win!
 

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

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Note in my ealier reply I repeatedly said "and the next deal has begun." Many rulebooks regard this as the point of no return. If a mistake was made in the award of a pot, incorrect ammount placed out for a call, misrepresented hand, or any other anomally has occurred in the play of a hand, action can be taken until the next deal has begun. Once the next deal is underway the previous hand is over. That is truly the mark of the end of one hand and the begining of the next. So to the letter of the law nothing should be said about the previous hand until this point.

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Can you give an example of where after all hands have been tabled or mucked it would be a prioblem for a player to comment on the hand before the next hand is dealt? I think you will really have to struglle to find such an example (not including making comments that are inappropriate when made at any time)

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The board plays. Some players turn up their hands some players chose to muck. The players that muck are not entitled to any of the pot becsaue they have not made a claim to the pot (note this is differenet than someoen stating "I play the board" and then throwing away their cards).

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Why would it be a problem to comment at this point now that all the players have either mucked or tabled their hands?