hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

bellagio 15/30 7-handed, very weak tight table

button is loose aggressive and tries to win too many pots. GoT is playing his A game.


i raise 66 UTG, folded to button who calls 2, GoT calls in the BB.

flop is J53r
GoT bets out, i raise, button calls, GoT calls.

turn is a 5 completing the rainbow
GoT bets out again, what now?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

It sure looks like GoT has AK beat. And therefore he probably has you beat. Plus you have a LAG button calling two cold on a drawless flop 3-way. You played the flop right and got valuable information - I'd dump the hand now.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

fold?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

GOT isnt actually playing serious poker is he?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

I think this is a fold, but more importantly, what color is the flop?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

"GoT is playing his A game."

A guy on tilt is playing his "A" game? -lol.
Maybe I'm missing something here.

Anyway, I think you should raise the turn, if his a aggressive player or a great player but not an excellent player.

Soh

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
"GoT is playing his A game."

A guy on tilt is playing his "A" game? -lol.
Maybe I'm missing something here.

Anyway, I think you should raise the turn, if his a aggressive player or a great player but not an excellent player.

Soh

[/ QUOTE ]

Aiya!

what's the difference here between an excellent player and a great player that makes you raise the turn against one but not raise the turn against the other?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

"GoT is playing his A game."

sorry for cluttering your thread i didnt see that

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a fold, but more importantly, what color is the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

definitely red. and don't think i won't collect!

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

You didn't mention anything about your image, which I think is very important here. Have you shown down anything from UTG? Does GoT know you well enough that he can put you on a range pre-flop? What is that range?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

In this situation I always prefer to spike a 6 on the river for the boat.

Seriously: fold.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
"GoT is playing his A game."

A guy on tilt is playing his "A" game? -lol.
Maybe I'm missing something here.

Soh

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

how is this not an easy fold after button called two on the flop?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

Also, without a read, I think it's fine to the turn and from there I think I like a fold.

The flop is barren and GoT could be betting with a wide range here (pair or not) thinking you've missed. You didn't miss as this flop is great for you, so the raise seems pretty standard. Button's call is very scary, especially with the rag board, the weak-tight table, and the LAG read (although maybe by trying to win too many pots, he makes some bad calls).

The turn card is definitely not great, but also not horrible. GoT bets, so let's look at some hand ranges. First off, your hand range leading into the turn...

Raise preflop UTG shows a pair probably down to 66 or 55 and non-pairs down to KQo, ATo and maybe KJs/o (7-handed). You raise the rag flop, which doesn't necessarily reduce your range much (especially with that flop), so you can be seen as having either a pocket pair, a made hand with AJ or KJ, or overs.

Button's hand is also loosely defined. A cold-call on the button vs a UTG raiser doesn't make too much sense, but it probably means a mid pocket pair 6s-8s, a decent high hand AJ+, or perhaps a speculative hand like JTs if he's that loose. The cold-call on the drawless flop is much more informative. He either has an unlikely set of 5s, a pocket-pair less than jacks, or a hand with a jack in it. Two cold-calls in a row though, I have to admit I'm very confused by this... especially after you defined him as a LAG. Still, LAGs usually like to bet or raise with much of anything, so his calls do show considerable weakness if the read is correct.

Finally, lets look at GoT's play in the context of the other players. As we said before, the flop play doesn't give us much information on either of your hands. You could still have overcards, he could still have nothing. The turn is more interesting. A donk bet into two players, both who voluntarily put in two bets 'cold' on the flop shows a lot of strength. What is his bet trying to accomplish. Either he has a strong hand and is betting for value, or he has a weaker hand and is trying to avoid a free card. With the button to act behind you, I think the chance of having the turn checked through is minimal. Thus, it's very likely he has a strong hand and is betting for value. I don't think he'd check-raise the turn with a strong hand because there's a chance he'd be facing you with two cold (or with an overcall), and even if he did get things to go "check, bet, call, raise", he'd be very unlikely to get much more out of either of you. So, I think it's most likely that he's betting here hoping you either raise or call (as the button would be more likely to overcall in this spot than you would be). Thus, I think you can fold here.

Hmm, one last thought is that if GoT is really smart and reads button as weak, he could be betting as a squeeze play to try and fold your better hand to get it heads up with the button. Still, that would require him to have a hand that he thinks is behind you and ahead of the button, and I can't think of a hand that would fit.

Wow, lots of rambling, but it was fun typing out my thoughts. How'd I do?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

You'd really be hoping that GoT has 44 right? I mean I don't think he has many 3's and he did call an UTG raise from the BB. It is 7 handed though, so hmm. don't we have to put him on something like 77-88 or a J? even if he has 66-44 that's probably the bottom of his range so we can't really play off of that

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

Some great players make a "heroic" fold here with a better hand than what the poster had, while expert will recognize what's going on and call.

Soh

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

"So, I think it's most likely that he's betting here hoping you either raise or call"

This is a really good way to think about things at the table. His turn bet is the 4th time he's put money into this pot vs. a tight (assuming anly 2+2er would be recognized as tight in a midlimit live game) UTG who has done nothing but raise at every opportunity. GoT wants action. At the very least he does not want to give AK/AQ/KQ a free card.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]

A guy on tilt is playing his "A" game? -lol.
Maybe I'm missing something here.


[/ QUOTE ]
Hi.

GoT

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

First, this is a limp reraising hand. Play it as such and I think you'll be suprised how much easier the hand becomes to play. Second GoT likes to donk it up because he likes to attack weakness. He sees into your soul and can see that you didn't like the flop, he's putting pressure on you to fold your marginal chit. Obviously you are better than he thinks but he still is likely beating you and you need to close it up on him. Raise and cap if given the opportunity.

On the river push all in.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
how is this not an easy fold after button called two on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

because the button is a loose retard and GoT could be squeezing bakkubakku out.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
First, this is a limp reraising hand. Play it as such and I think you'll be suprised how much easier the hand becomes to play. Second GoT likes to donk it up because he likes to attack weakness. He sees into your soul and can see that you didn't like the flop, he's putting pressure on you to fold your marginal chit. Obviously you are better than he thinks but he still is likely beating you and you need to close it up on him. Raise and cap if given the opportunity.

On the river push all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this just a dumb joke or am i missing something?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

Entity just posted the same hand only he had 99.

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First, this is a limp reraising hand. Play it as such and I think you'll be suprised how much easier the hand becomes to play. Second GoT likes to donk it up because he likes to attack weakness. He sees into your soul and can see that you didn't like the flop, he's putting pressure on you to fold your marginal chit. Obviously you are better than he thinks but he still is likely beating you and you need to close it up on him. Raise and cap if given the opportunity.

On the river push all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this just a dumb joke or am i missing something?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you're missing anything

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
Entity just posted the same hand only he had 99.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm glad the novelty of typing in 3rd person has worn off

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

Oh, I see. -lol.

Hi!

Soh

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

[ QUOTE ]
First, this is a limp reraising hand. Play it as such and I think you'll be suprised how much easier the hand becomes to play. Second GoT likes to donk it up because he likes to attack weakness. He sees into your soul and can see that you didn't like the flop, he's putting pressure on you to fold your marginal chit. Obviously you are better than he thinks but he still is likely beating you and you need to close it up on him. Raise and cap if given the opportunity.

On the river push all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would really like to hear more about this approach, as I am often lost in hands like these, and am definitely confused when I am against a limp-reraiser when shorthanded.

Can you explain a little more?

Re: hand vs GuyOnTilt
 

hi bakkubakku,

looks like an easy fold to me. However, GoT may intend to fold to a raise with a hand that beats you (TT-77), so if you choose to play, raise. If you do this, you are bluffing, so obviously it shouldn't be your standard line.

Even a hand as strong as a J might be folded by GoT, depending on the frequency with which you make this play, as your raise signals quite a bit of strength given the 3rd player in the pot, and if he has JT or something he'll have to believe he's drawing to only 2 outs.

good luck.
eric

results
 

[ QUOTE ]
bellagio 15/30 7-handed, very weak tight table

button is loose aggressive and tries to win too many pots. GoT is playing his A game.


i raise 66 UTG, folded to button who calls 2, GoT calls in the BB.

flop is J53r
GoT bets out, i raise, button calls, GoT calls.

turn is a 5 completing the rainbow
GoT bets out again, what now?

[/ QUOTE ]

i folded, button folded, GoT had 43s

Re: results
 

GoT plays GooT.