B&M live poker : Duh?
 

I played at the WYNN 8-16 and at the BELLAGIO 15-30 live for the first time in my life. My hands were trembling, I mishandled chips/bets, forgot to tip most of the time (and tipped later with apologies). I was a telegraph station, I think.

I found the experience very boring. I was full of tells (I presume) and still came out way ahead. My cards were running average. I didn't think much of the opposition. Some got angry at my "I don't chop". They didn't even answer my "good night" at 4:00 AM when I walked out with 2 extra racks than I sat in with. Loose-Passive and weak-tight for the most part. Some slow rollers too. Some played the part of "long term LV pros". Duh!. Kept pushing them off best hands, etc.

My impression of the dealers is that they are a greedy bunch that take tips for granted. The easiest money ever earned was by the dealers. Not even a likeable bunch.

All in all, an interesting experience, just for learning that online is way better, faster and lower rake/no tips.

If I could play 200 hands per hour live, this would be a gold mine.

Anybody else agree or I was in untypical games/conditions?.

I can't even consider a live grind at poker. Hats off to anyone that has climbed the ladder playing live poker.

Edit: Extraordinary buffet at the WYNN for $34. I did not eat at the Bellagio.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Play higher live. It will be less boring. In general, I acutally prefer live because the action is so much better and I like the experience and immediate gratification of paper cash when you win, the cameraderie at the table, the chips and cards. I dunno, maybe I'm "old school" lol. I play lots of online poker as well.

Jeff

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Play higher live. It will be less boring. In general, I acutally prefer live because the action is so much better and I like the experience and immediate gratification of paper cash when you win, the cameraderie at the table, the chips and cards. I dunno, maybe I'm "old school" lol. I play lots of online poker as well.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'll take live over online any day. And I don't think your experience was typical and I don't believe you have to bump up in levels to enjoy the experience. If I'm leaving with 2 extra racks, I'm enjoying it, no matter the level.

I played 4/8 the other day, made a killing, didn't talk to a single person the whole session, was courteous, respectful and tipped the dealers, and had a fine time. Boring? A little bit. But I'd rather be bored and make some $ then have a great time losing.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

I've only played B&M twice - once in New Orleans and another in Vegas. I really like the ability to sit down, chat up people, drink beers and play cards. I wasn't there to try to make money, I was there for the entertainment value. One night at the Mirage I played for over 12 hours straight because I was having such a good time with the table I was playing at. I got somewhat drunk and by the end of it I was down a buy-in and a half (about $150). I didn't regret losing money at all, considering I had a great time doing it.

Playing online is entirely different. I play because I enjoy poker of course, but I also play to make money.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Live poker is definitely slower and can therefore be boring if you're not getting good hands.
However I would not say your experience was "typical". The fact that you could sit down, make mistakes, give tells (according to you) and still be so much better than everyone else tells me that you had a great night! Those are the fun times when you happen to find a table of players that you can easily beat.
But it doesn't mean that all live play is like that.
I'm glad you left ahead, though.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Really you can't make any statistical conclusions about ~180 to 200 hand sessions (I played 4 sessions, so total about 800 hands). Two racks/session is just 25 to 35 big bets, depending on the limit. The plays I saw is the only thing indicating me that the players weren't very good at all. I could have lost 2 racks and my opinions wouldn't change.

I don't consider +/-25 BBs any type of "big night" good or bad. Of course + is better...

Maybe I'm just spoiled by online play.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

"Maybe I'm just spoiled by online play."

You've only played on-line, so that's natural. We old-timers who grew up with B&M play and who haven't played on-line at all, are the opposite.

The difference might come down to this: other day I saw a guy sitting on a step, hunched over, apparently engrossed in something. Coming up on him from behind, I assumed he was reading. When I passed him, I saw he was playing a video game. I would imagine had our situations been reversed, he would have assumed I was playing a video game. But I would have been reading.

FWIW, I see Bobby Hoff playing on-line on his laptop while he's waiting for a B&M seat.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
If I could play 200 hands per hour live, this would be a gold mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, yeah it would.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

For me on-line is just passing the time between trips to B&M live games. I get board wtih the on-line games personally. I feel that's the grind. I've taken to playing sit and go's not ring games because the ring games are tedious for me.

Live I feel adrenellin pumping. I can see my opponents and although we play fewer hands together I can more easily put them on a skill level. It's tough to track whether someone's in every hand on-line versus live. Live, you see them limp ever hand and cold call. On-line, maybe you're watching tv or listening to music, or whatever.

Plus, the level of play live is usually much worse. People are there to gamble it up and poker is the new hot game. Craps in the 70s. Poker after the MIT team made the press. Now poker. On-line people are seeking the game out, they're not on vacation just looking to give money away.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

[ QUOTE ]
For me on-line is just passing the time between trips to B&M live games. I get board wtih the on-line games personally. I feel that's the grind. I've taken to playing sit and go's not ring games because the ring games are tedious for me.

Live I feel adrenellin pumping. I can see my opponents and although we play fewer hands together I can more easily put them on a skill level. It's tough to track whether someone's in every hand on-line versus live. Live, you see them limp ever hand and cold call. On-line, maybe you're watching tv or listening to music, or whatever.

Plus, the level of play live is usually much worse. People are there to gamble it up and poker is the new hot game. Craps in the 70s. Poker after the MIT team made the press. Now poker. On-line people are seeking the game out, they're not on vacation just looking to give money away.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean the MIT team and blackjack?

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

I would say that a good analogy is to a musician.

Most of the money a musician makes is off the work they do in the recording studio - most of which involves long hours, a lot of repetition, and isolation from the outside world.

For most bands, a significantly smaller amount of money is made by touring - most tours tend to break even or make a small profit (acts like the Rolling Stones and others are the exception) - but almost all bands prefer to play live because it is a more pure experience.

I agree that online is more profitable - smaller rake, more hands, no tips - but it can also be completely mind-numbing.

I like to play life once a month or so because it is a chance to interact, to engage with real people, and to actually hold cards. In other words, its FUN goddammit!

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Poker in a B+M environment is a social game. I like online play but nothing beats live play for pure enjoyment factor. If you get a good card room with a nice bunch of players [good or bad ] then the experience is something you'd enjoy as well.
I table full of stiff's is no fun, especialy if the dealers are garbage too.
As for your tells, thats what makes it more challenging, you get to try and read and not be read.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

I understand your frustration with volume of hands and $$, but I think the quality side of things makes B&M more fun. Pure onliners should read Zen and the Art of Poker. Relax, enjoy everything a casino poker table has to offer. Between the social aspect, poorer players, great tells and hot waitresses its way more fun than online. I pay for two trips a year to Vegas playing nothing higher than $15-30.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Nice brag post....

I think you clearly don't like the company of real people. I bet you creeped the sh*t out of evryone you played with. You're problem isn't live poker...it's live interactions.....

Life is so much easier in front of a screen, isn't it???

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

I stated with online poker as well and I find live poker much, much more fun.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Im a college student who hasn't the time or money to go to a casino. When i came back this semester i played online almost exclusively for about two months since my poker buds were busy with fraternities and classes etc., but since things settled down i've been playing live about 3-4 nights a week and winning money or breaking even almost every single night, regardless of the quality of my cards. Live poker (even my little $10 buy-in dorm game) IMO is infinitely easier and more fun than online. Obviously 8 sessions is statistically insignificant, but I know I'm many times better than all but like 2 of the 15 guys that consistently play, and thats why I've been winning. Since my home game started back up 2 weeks ago I've only played 7 sngs and no more than 3 hours of NL/LHE ring online because I've had no desire to after killing my juicy home game for about 50 BB/s per 2-4 hour night. I love having actual cards, actual chips, and just the general feeling of using skill to win rather than the formulaic approach I feel online play has most of the time. I like being able to play more than 20% of hands and still win because I can tell when I have the best hand instead of wondering whether I'm playing with donks or pros that have either crap or premium hands respectively.

Of course, I play poker for different reasons than most of you, although I probably could make a good amount of money 4-tabling online if I would just set my mind to it. And if I devoted more time to playing online, my PT stats would actually mean something and I would be able to have reliable "tells" on players based off of that data, but I just like being able to see my opponent. I feel that only live poker brings the elements of the game that make poker more than just a job. I spend enough time in front of my damn computer coding for school.

Anyhoo, I've never been within a mile of an B&M cardroom, but I think you need to give live play another shot and get away from the monitor for awhile if you find winning money in a casino boring. I'd probably bust a load if managed to find the time or money to make a trip to a casino to take the fishies money.

Steve

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Your wife seems to like my dirty chat.

Re: B&M live poker : Duh?
 

Playing online gives you the benefit of having played many hands in many situations in a short period of live time. The rake is also less significant, and you can earn a siginificant hourly rate with much less standard deviation. There are also a larger variety of games, and when players start to catch onto your play, you can change websites, etc.

Playing in a B&M casino gives you the benefit of knowing how others act physically when they hold a specific hand, and allow you to act accordingly. Some players often "telegraph" the kind of hand they hold in how they bet. The players tend to be much looser and the games more lucrative. The downside is that the rake is a bigger factor, you play much fewer hands/hr and there may or may not always be a good game.

-J