Calling down the fish
 

Villian is just a bad, loose fish but I only have nines. Should I be calling or folding somewhere?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB folds, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Re: Calling down the fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
Villian is just a bad, loose fish but I only have nines. Should I be calling or folding somewhere?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB folds, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

[/ QUOTE ]if this is the usual passive fish, then yes you can find a fold somewhere easy. but if you say hes loose bad but and overly aggressive(so hes not the normal fish) then 3 bet pf.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Looks, good. Folding would be very bad on flop or turn. The river isn't the best card you could hope for, but the pot is big enough to call.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

I think you can raise this preflop. and bet until the river, check calling it unless a diamond comes.

crappy hand

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Yes this guy will keep betting with nothing once he has started. I figure if I show aggression and he does have nothing he just folds. So I end up in these call down modes hoping I am ahead and he never improves.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

This hand is yucky.

If you're calling down at least CR flop/bet turn and give yourself a chance to do something and fold vs more resistance.

edit - i assumed he was loose passive or weak, also this doesn't mean i actually like this line vs specified opponent, i just think it's better than investing 2.5 BBs in calling down, at least with cr + bet you can fold better hands for 2 bb and easily get out vs more action. vs lag i think you just call down if you're determined to see showdown, donk betting anywhere is bad mojo.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

He had KJo and mhig. Now that you know he is willing to play something like that this way does my play look better? Or should I be raising him out somewhere anyhow?

Re: Calling down the fish
 

calling down is standard vs bad lag, the fact that the ace paired makes your hand look even better

i hate putting any bets in here out of position, you're just asking to get outplayed or putting 3 bb to see showdown vs a better hand so i give him a "cheaper" shot at hitting his draw or 6 outer and live with it and i really really really don't want to be cring the turn here if he is going to bet missed overs or flush draw any decent % of the time on the river. if you know he is a lag i like the suggestion of 3-betting preflop also, i'd probably start calling around the 55/66 mark.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Yeah I think 3 betting pf and then leading out on the flop is better than cr the flop. I just know he is also capable of 3 betting the flop and then wtf do I do with my nines? They hit the muck and I just threw away the best hand to a lag. If they don't hit the muck and instead I go into call down then I probably should have taken the cheaper call down mode like I did in the actual hand.

OP vs LAG = sucks big time

Re: Calling down the fish
 

If he's bad, I like it, if he's decent, I can find a turn fold here.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

I like 3 bet preflop and call,call, call, call, call, call, call... lol (oh, and bet flop)

Re: Calling down the fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
If he's bad, I like it, if he's decent, I can find a turn fold here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can fold the turn here. You got the best card, not counting a 9, in the deck with the A pairing. I do think a river fold is +EV.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Check-raising the flop sucks. We're behind to his range of hands, he will never fold a better hand, and given that he's bad and loose he will often at least call the CR with many holdings that we beat at this point, which, depending on the turn card and opponents aggressiveness may put us in a tough spot.

Against someone who is willing to bet all the way, calling down should be the best line. What am I missing?

Re: Calling down the fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah I think 3 betting pf and then leading out on the flop is better than cr the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
I can see the value of 3-betting preflop against some opponents (all? we should be vary of doing it against good opponents?), but is it still a good play now that it's 3-handed?

Re: Calling down the fish
 

what the? where did you come from?

Re: Calling down the fish
 

SVEDEN

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Obviously you got it right. This guy put in 2.5 bb to win 5.5. But did you know that this guy would bet through with nothing? Because, if not then I'd play my line to try and intimidate at least one of the two players out on the flop. The pot would be big enough to try and win at that point. Even if villian bet flop and turn and checked river UI but bet river if improved, he'd be getting the right price for his efforts. So, I think you need a very specific read to make the play you made.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Bet/folding the flop isn;t a bad idea.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Ok the reason I posted and asked about this one is because although it worked this time I'm not sure it's +ev long term even against a guy who I know will bet all the way with nothing.

I have 2 concerns with raising the flop
1- He folds when I could have just let him bluff off 2 more big bets as in the hand
2- He 3 bets with nothing and I fold the best hand

I am leaning towards 3 betting pf vs an opponent like this and hoping just to take it down with a flop bet. Even then though, I think he would really have to miss the flop to fold to my continuation bet. And if he doesn't, I have no idea where I'm at.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

Not betting this flop is a big mistake.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously you got it right. This guy put in 2.5 bb to win 5.5. But did you know that this guy would bet through with nothing? Because, if not then I'd play my line to try and intimidate at least one of the two players out on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
But Hero did intimidate one of the players out on the flop!

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3,[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB folds, Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero calls.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
what the? where did you come from?

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you mean that in a good way, or was it a criticism of my thought process? If it was the latter I'd appreciate it if you would let me know what's wrong with it. I need all the help I can get...

Re: Calling down the fish
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what the? where did you come from?

[/ QUOTE ]
Did you mean that in a good way, or was it a criticism of my thought process? If it was the latter I'd appreciate it if you would let me know what's wrong with it. I need all the help I can get...

[/ QUOTE ]

no i mean i haven't seen you post in like a year when you and i frequented SS.

Re: Calling down the fish
 

I three-bet this preflop, and lead the flop, fold to a raise from a loose passive player.