Teach me to play LAG
 

3 handed 3k sits next to me and then a 10k stack immeadiately sits across the table after the 3k started playing. Soon into it when he has about 9k I have it covered. He raises in SB I call with QTo. Flop is AQ5o, he bets $600 I call. Turn is 7 he bets 1800 I go all in. A good move to add to the playbook?

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

I suppose you're representing a set of 5s here?

How often is he firing a two barrel continuation bet, here?
I assume he folds all one pair hands... but would he call you with aces up, here?

Given your typical TAG image, I think he'll probably fold anything worse than a set, but that means when you get called, you'll be drawing dead.

Used in moderation, I think the play is fine.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

I'd say he's more representing an Ace or two pair. I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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Given your typical TAG image, I think he'll probably fold anything worse than a set ... Used in moderation, I think the play is fine.

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If he is folding anything worse than a set, you should do this every time. I can't see how people would fold aces up here ... just not gonna happen.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

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Yeah.. you're right.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I'd say he's more representing an Ace or two pair. I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

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playing three handed i think his range of possible holdings here is WAY wider then aces up.
i really like the delayed semi-bluff when playing shorthanded in position.

the real question you need to ask is will this player fold A9 in this spot not whether he'll fold aces up.

you also have to realize alot of the time you're Q is good here.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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you also have to realize alot of the time you're Q is good here.

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tru

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

I bluff a lot, but hardly ever on a situation like this..
how do you know that he doesnt have a very good hand himself.. or maybe he's a maniac that calls with AK.

But then again.. maybe that's why I still can't beat 10/20.. people run over me so easy.. at 5/10 you don't ever see this kind of play.. I don't know when to identify situations when bluffing like this would be ok.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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3k sits next to me ...Soon into it he has about 9k

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I would think you have a lot more fold equity than normal considering this.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

Hi Bruiser,

I think this kind of bluff is something that can be applied only ocassionally to add some value to sets/two pair. I dont like bluffing with hands that have some showdown value but calling here sucks too.
I think that with your usual image you will get away with this play very often though (or maybe I am mistaken about your usual image )
So allin in all I think I dont like the play unless I am you and have rockish image.

Best wishes

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I think this kind of bluff

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i don't know why everyone is so set on assuming this is a bluff...while in this particular instance villian may have had an ace, the fact remains that when playing three handed like this often times hero is ahead here.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

well, i think its fair to say the purpose of the bet is always a bluff.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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well, i think its fair to say the purpose of the bet is always a bluff.


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you'd be surprised.
just because most 2+2ers would never call here with a worse hand, if you ever actually played shorthanded deep-stacked NL you will see a lot of value betting with hands you wouldn't believe.

so while it may sometimes be a bluff...often times it won't.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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if you ever actually played shorthanded deep-stacked NL

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a) i often play shorthanded deep-stacked NL.
b) they arent deepstacked
c) i dont think bruiser expects to ever get called with a worse hand here. If this is "often" getting called by JJ in your game, then i need to book a flight to LAX.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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c) i dont think bruiser expects to ever get called with a worse hand here. If this is "often" getting called by JJ in your game, then i need to book a flight to LAX.

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if bruiser is never raising here w/ a bluff then he A)won't ever get called by a worse hand and B)shouldn't be playing 3 handed NL.

let me ask you this:

you call a standard raise in position with KJ suited...flop a gutshot and call a pot size bet on the flop looking to make a move on the turn...now the turn comes and gives you a flush draw to go along with your gutshot...you feel you've got pretty good folding equity if the guy has something like KQ or JJ on down...are you going to just call and try to make your hand or take a stab at the pot?

if you only raise in this spot with the best hand you aren't going to be very hard to play against.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

what i'm saying is this: in this specific case, although bruiser may have the best hand, he will never be called with a worse one.

of course bruiser should be making this move from time to time with K high, 9 high, whatever. In this case he happens to have a pair of Qs, but in terms of his chances of winning this particular pot his cards do not matter. Except that if he gets called he may have some outs.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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well, i think its fair to say the purpose of the bet is always a bluff.

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Sometimes when the turn card is drawy, he can get called by a worse hand here if the game is juiced.

But there are other reasons to raise. If you just raise here w/ big hands, that becomes easy to play against.

If you call and he has crap, you give him a free card to improve if he's gonna give up.

If you call and you are not auto-calling river, you give him a chance to bluff you on the river w/ his KJ.

And so forth.

Basically, listen to rbk. I do not think he is saying this is a value raise, just that there are many reasons to raise and your hand is often good.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I'd say he's more representing an Ace or two pair. I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

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playing three handed i think his range of possible holdings here is WAY wider then aces up.
i really like the delayed semi-bluff when playing shorthanded in position.

the real question you need to ask is will this player fold A9 in this spot not whether he'll fold aces up.

you also have to realize alot of the time you're Q is good here.

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this is what i was thinking about in the game. turned out my opponent had AJ and called pretty quick. was happy with my read about what he had, not sure how he can call there. but ultimately, i did just about get stacked there.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I'd say he's more representing an Ace or two pair. I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

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playing three handed i think his range of possible holdings here is WAY wider then aces up.
i really like the delayed semi-bluff when playing shorthanded in position.

the real question you need to ask is will this player fold A9 in this spot not whether he'll fold aces up.

you also have to realize alot of the time you're Q is good here.

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this is what i was thinking about in the game. turned out my opponent had AJ and called pretty quick. was happy with my read about what he had, not sure how he can call there. but ultimately, i did just about get stacked there.

[/ QUOTE ] I think SB vs BB people look you up a lot easier.

edit: one more comment, if 7 added 2suit villain is more likely to look you up as you can have pair (or gut) + flush draw now.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I'd say he's more representing an Ace or two pair. I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

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playing three handed i think his range of possible holdings here is WAY wider then aces up.
i really like the delayed semi-bluff when playing shorthanded in position.

the real question you need to ask is will this player fold A9 in this spot not whether he'll fold aces up.

you also have to realize alot of the time you're Q is good here.

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this is what i was thinking about in the game. turned out my opponent had AJ and called pretty quick. was happy with my read about what he had, not sure how he can call there. but ultimately, i did just about get stacked there.

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he probably looked you up since board is pretty dry and he figured you'd flatcall the turn bet with good hands and commit on river with position.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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I'd say he's more representing an Ace or two pair. I doubt Villain folds Aces up.

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playing three handed i think his range of possible holdings here is WAY wider then aces up.
i really like the delayed semi-bluff when playing shorthanded in position.

the real question you need to ask is will this player fold A9 in this spot not whether he'll fold aces up.

you also have to realize alot of the time you're Q is good here.

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this is what i was thinking about in the game. turned out my opponent had AJ and called pretty quick. was happy with my read about what he had, not sure how he can call there. but ultimately, i did just about get stacked there.

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Did the turn card put a flush draw on the board or was it rainbow? A lot of players in that game will jam the turn when it adds a flush draw to their pair.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

look he raised out of the small blind which is the worst place to be in. then he bets hard the next two bets. do you really want to play all in here on a bluff in this spot. i dont.
you had a couple hundred in before the flop and now want to go for 9,000 on a bluff. doesnt make sense.
even if you dont make these plays often enough they will have something to call anyway as people tend to believe you are bluffing as thats what they want to believe.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

bruiser i like this hand if the villian thinks you are tight. if you are an unknown to him then im too scared any Ace will look you up here, and if that happend youll think to yourself: Jesus, this guy is a donk I shouldve just waited and busted him when I had it."

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

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look he raised out of the small blind which is the worst place to be in. then he bets hard the next two bets. do you really want to play all in here on a bluff in this spot. i dont.
you had a couple hundred in before the flop and now want to go for 9,000 on a bluff. doesnt make sense.
even if you dont make these plays often enough they will have something to call anyway as people tend to believe you are bluffing as thats what they want to believe.

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Bruiser I used to do what you did and then lost enough that now I don't.

Re: Teach me to play LAG
 

i suppose you guys are all exactly right on this one. the turn did put a flush draw up there, the villan was an unknown, if he had known me he would have folded. i figured he was a good tight regular player cause of how he joined the table (waiting for that shorstack to sit), it's tough to call whole stack with just top pair.