AJo...Standard??
 

Standard?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, Button calls, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 caps</font>, Button calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (24.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, UTG folds, Hero folds,

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

IMO, yes.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

I'd just call with AJo in early position nearly 100% of the time. Would AK/AQ/QQ+ cold call behind at this table, or reraise?

I don't think there's much value in 3-betting the turn. Similarly, you're not going to fold these players, so the raise protects nothing. I'd just call to close the turn action (2 bets that *could* be used to showdown).

But, had the river action remained the same, I'd probably check/fold the river too, expecting to lose to either KQ (MP2) or JT (button). I'd call 1 bet on the river, preferably an action closing bet.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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I don't think there's much value in 3-betting the turn. Similarly, you're not going to fold these players, so the raise protects nothing. I'd just call to close the turn action (2 bets that *could* be used to showdown).


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This is a very valid point. I agree 100%.

Whenever I've showed aggression preflop and flop and I'm suddenly faced with a turn raise or turn check raise I'm guilty of pushing dubious equity edges. I feel this point may have saved me chip spewing in the future.

This is along the same line of feeling almost compelled to continuation bet after raising preflop. Another one of my leaks.

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I'd just call with AJo in early position nearly 100% of the time.

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This one I can't agree with.
If you're only prepared to raise AQ and better in EP, you're giving away far too much information. AJ I like to limp 20%, raise 80%.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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This one I can't agree with.
If you're only prepared to raise AQ and better in EP, you're giving away far too much information. AJ I like to limp 20%, raise 80%.

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If you have a game plan for when you are re-raised pre-flop, fine. I actually *do* raise preflop with AJo in EP, but not before I've settled into a table. I don't do it at every type of table either. I'd still tend to call more than raise though (I think raising 80% is much too high).

Suited, I'm open-raising every time.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd just call with AJo in early position nearly 100% of the time. Would AK/AQ/QQ+ cold call behind at this table, or reraise?

I don't think there's much value in 3-betting the turn. Similarly, you're not going to fold these players, so the raise protects nothing. I'd just call to close the turn action (2 bets that *could* be used to showdown).

But, had the river action remained the same, I'd probably check/fold the river too, expecting to lose to either KQ (MP2) or JT (button). I'd call 1 bet on the river, preferably an action closing bet.

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This is so weak-tight I want to cry.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

yes

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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Quote:
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I don't think there's much value in 3-betting the turn. Similarly, you're not going to fold these players, so the raise protects nothing. I'd just call to close the turn action (2 bets that *could* be used to showdown).



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This is a very valid point. I agree 100%.

Whenever I've showed aggression preflop and flop and I'm suddenly faced with a turn raise or turn check raise I'm guilty of pushing dubious equity edges. I feel this point may have saved me chip spewing in the future.


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I don't like to speak in absolutes, but you have freaking top two pair on an AJT8 rainbow board in a 4-way pot. You don't think you have &gt;25% equity here? Are you kidding? Turn is a very easy 3-bet as I see it.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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I don't think there's much value in 3-betting the turn. Similarly, you're not going to fold these players, so the raise protects nothing.

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3 betting here is not about pushing any players out, it is about making the most of your huge equity in this pot with top 2. Even if you give a conservative estimate that Hero will win this 33% of the time, putting just 25% of the money in you should be getting every bet in that you can.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

Using likely starting hands for the villains, can you show me how 33% is a conservative estimate? Pokerstove?

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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I don't think there's much value in 3-betting the turn. Similarly, you're not going to fold these players, so the raise protects nothing. I'd just call to close the turn action (2 bets that *could* be used to showdown).


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The turn is about value. Not about protection or forcing them out. 3betting the turn is good here.

edit: I should say that I think hero played this hand well.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

Ok. I'll play around with Poker Stove.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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Ok. I'll play around with Poker Stove.

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I look at it in the way that the only hand that I'm realistically afraid of seeing from villain is TT. When he caps the turn KQ becomes more likely. But hands like AT, JT, A8 and very likely some other weaker hands (since we have no read on villain) are possible.

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

The reason why I posted this hand is primarily about the turn 3bet (secondarily - the river fold). I thought about it for a good few seconds.

I think there's always time to pause when a blank\semi-blank falls on the turn and someone comes to life. If it's HU there isn't that much cause for alarm and 3betting is very easy. But when raised into a field or even worse check-raised into a field, you have to give villian credit for a hand (95% of the time).

In this case, it was either Q9, or 2pr. I discounted KJ and set slowplays, due to the 2flush board. There was a possibility of K9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] as well. With so many more 2pr combinations than set, Q9, K9s, I raised for value.

As I pointed out in my response to DJames, realising that the 3bet is not automatic, just because I've got 2pr will save me chip spewing in the future. Whatever equity you think you had on the flop should be discounted in these situations. Sometime this drop in equity means your turn 3bet is -EV.

I'm sure in this situation my turn 3bet was +EV.

FWIW. Results in white.
<font color="white">
MP2 has Q9 for the str8 on the turn.
Button has AT for the rivered full house.</font>

Re: AJo...Standard??
 

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This one I can't agree with.
If you're only prepared to raise AQ and better in EP, you're giving away far too much information. AJ I like to limp 20%, raise 80%.

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C'mon this is 1/2 at Party.