AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

I hate my flop play, I should have raised... if I did the hand may have played out differently.

MP is loose/passive, sees every hand. CO is a bit of a LAG, a raise means he has paint or a pair. BB is an unknown.

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 folds</font>, BB calls, MP calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, Hero.....

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

Your flop call was perfect. There's absolutely no point in raising this pot. You don't have an equity edge againt the other 3 opponents at this point, and your raise isn't pushing anyone out. Thus, you're only inflating the pot.


As for the turn, I think I'd 3-bet. It's a way better option than calling or folding here. Plus it may earn you a free showdown if you want it.



Adam

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call was perfect. There's absolutely no point in raising this pot. You don't have an equity edge againt the other 3 opponents at this point, and your raise isn't pushing anyone out. Thus, you're only inflating the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh... 15SB, I have a gutshot, 2 overcards (which may not be 100% good I admit), and a backdoor flush draw - AND I'm on the button. The just screams for a raise, and keep in mind I'm not trying to push anyone out.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call was perfect. There's absolutely no point in raising this pot. You don't have an equity edge againt the other 3 opponents at this point, and your raise isn't pushing anyone out. Thus, you're only inflating the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh... 15SB, I have a gutshot, 2 overcards (which may not be 100% good I admit), and a backdoor flush draw - AND I'm on the button. The just screams for a raise, and keep in mind I'm not trying to push anyone out.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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Raising the flop would be bad. Are u even considering that bb is betting into the field with the raiser and three bettor to act?

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

I'm probably three betting the turn, but i would like a little more info on CO. When u say, "a raise" do u mean PF? What is his post-flop like? The fact that bb still bet the turn scares the [censored] out of me.
I might call and see if bb three bets, but considering u get a [censored] load of bets out of K, 9, and flushdraws, i like a three bet better.

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call was perfect. There's absolutely no point in raising this pot. You don't have an equity edge againt the other 3 opponents at this point, and your raise isn't pushing anyone out. Thus, you're only inflating the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh... 15SB, I have a gutshot, 2 overcards (which may not be 100% good I admit), and a backdoor flush draw - AND I'm on the button. The just screams for a raise, and keep in mind I'm not trying to push anyone out.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

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I think you are overestimating your pot equity here. I don't likea flop raise at all.

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think you are overestimating your pot equity here. I don't likea flop raise at all.

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What do you guys think of making a raise on the flop with the intention of taking a free card on the turn(assuming you think there is a good chance you can get said freebie)?

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I think you are overestimating your pot equity here. I don't likea flop raise at all.

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What do you guys think of making a raise on the flop with the intention of taking a free card on the turn(assuming you think there is a good chance you can get said freebie)?

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I don't think anybody would consider betting the turn if it's checked to u on a turn brick. I just don't see u 1. getting a free card 2. This being a value raise 3. U having any FE.

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

Raising the flop is horrible. I peel, close the action, and hope to spike a gutshot or a redraw, less so a pair. No brainer.

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

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I'm probably three betting the turn, but i would like a little more info on CO. When u say, "a raise" do u mean PF? What is his post-flop like?

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CO is laggy pre-flop, and tends to be over aggressive post flop. He will raise paint or pairs pre-flop.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Re: AQ pre-flop button 3-bet, then screwed up the flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your flop call was perfect. There's absolutely no point in raising this pot. You don't have an equity edge againt the other 3 opponents at this point, and your raise isn't pushing anyone out. Thus, you're only inflating the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

meh... 15SB, I have a gutshot, 2 overcards (which may not be 100% good I admit), and a backdoor flush draw - AND I'm on the button. The just screams for a raise, and keep in mind I'm not trying to push anyone out.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]



Pot size has nothing to do with whether you should raise or not.


The fact is, there are 4 people in this pot, meaning you need more than 25% equity to raise.

25% equity is 3:1, which means you need more than about 11 effective outs. There is no way you have 11 cleans outs here.

Calling the flop is the best play. Period.



Adam