hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

I figured this would do more good in micro than HUSH. they ignore my posts there anyway. you are free to do the same.

hero is TAG, but keep in mind this is shorthanded so plays more hands and is more aggressive

MP is LAG - plays almost all hands for one bet, cold calls maybe half the time, autobets when checked to, will call down with weak hands like third pair, when he raises he usually has a piece

PokerRoom 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: eviljeff is UTG
<font color="#CC3333">eviljeff raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls.

since SH raising standards might not be what you're used to (especially mine), I'll just tell you hero's range here: 77-AA, A7+, any suited A, any two higher than 9

1) MP isn't tricky, so what hands can you rule out for him given that he didn't 3bet?

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">eviljeff bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">eviljeff 3-bets</font>, MP calls.

2) what range of hands do I bet here? is it any different from my pfr range?
3) when MP pops me he's probably got something - what is a reasonable range for him now?
4) what do I 3bet here? do I have a made hand, a draw, or am I bluffing?


Turn: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">eviljeff bets</font>, MP calls.

5) given that MP doesn't pop me here, what can you rule out of your previous range for him?

River: (7.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">eviljeff bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">eviljeff 3-bets</font>, MP calls.

6) MP raises here - he must have improved. what exactly is his hand?
7) I know what MP has and I still 3-bet. I have one of 4 hands. what are they?

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]

MP is LAG - plays almost all hands for one bet, cold calls maybe half the time, autobets when checked to, will call down with weak hands like third pair, when he raises he usually has a piece


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I know what MP has and I still 3-bet. I have one of 4 hands. what are they?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why didn't you C/R the turn?
He has QT you have, I dunno, 77, KK or AA. I was going to say A3s but I don't see how you can 3-bet the flop with that without a flush draw.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

77,qq,aa,kk.

ps. Whats your resulsts with A2-A6s and QJ-Q10 and J10 from utg in a five handed game? I am currently raising A7s,KJ,J10s but not QJo or J10o from that position. I am also raising 66 and possibly 55.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

1. PP's 10's -A's (possibly 9's), AK/AQ possibly AJs/A10s

2. Your continuation bet range here is likely similiar to your pfr range

3. TP/2pair hands like Qx, Q3, Q7, 73; possible one pair plus flush/gutshot hands like 76d

4. You're not bluffing against someone who raises with something and calls down with less (ie unlikely to fold).
You could have a TPGK hand, pocket 7's, one pair plus nut flush draw like A7d.

5. The 2 pair hands and any pair containing a 3.

6. Q10 looks reasonable.

7. I got five: Pocket 7's, Q's, K's, A's, A3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (less likely though).


Also if he autobets when checked to, did you consider a turn c/r?

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

You have 77
MP has QTs or AQ

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

1.) AA-99, AK-AT, KQ-KJ
2.) You bet the flop here with nearly any 2. Not much.
3.) Flush draw, Qx, 7x, 3x, pocket pair.
4.) Made hand, probably AA-77, AQ, A7d, KQ, QJ, QT
5.) Probably would have raised 3x here, so 7x, Q with a weak kicker, pocket pair, flush draw
6.) QT looks pretty likely. TT is unlikely since he didn't 3-bet preflop.
7.) AA/KK/QQ/77

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

I'd say you have QQ or an overpair. T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] looks reasonable for villain.


[ QUOTE ]
since SH raising standards might not be what you're used to (especially mine), I'll just tell you hero's range here: 77-AA, A7+, any suited A, any two higher than 9

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a dangerously wide range for UTG in a 5-handed game (unless you're at a table full of rocks and they think you're one too).

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a dangerously wide range for UTG in a 5-handed game (unless you're at a table full of rocks and they think you're one too).

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - I'd only raise down to about A6s, A8o, I'd throw away JTo, QTo and I'd raise 66 and probably 55.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

Any suited ace to open? This is surely too loose, and it's gotta be costing you money in the long run. A7s is my personal minimum, and that's opening.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

This is a very, very good post. Proof positive why the Micros is the most underrated strategy forum on 2+2.

1. Ruling out AK, AQs, TT+
2. You're betting most everything on that flop.
3. 33, 77, Q7, Q3, Qx, outside chance at K7, A7
4. AQ, KQ, maybe QJ, 77, QQ+
5. Ruling out Q3, 33, 77, prolly Q7
6. QT
7. QQ-AA, 77

Edit: Should have included a couple of decent diamonds (pair or no) in the flop range.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You have 77
MP has QTs or AQ

[/ QUOTE ]

Here is some rationale behind my thoughts:

1) When you 3-bet the river, this really narrows down your range of hands to QQ, or 77. The raise on the river has to be discouraging if hero's hand is just an overpair since there's trips on the board, but hero's 3-bet says he can beat trips at the very least. Anything else is a spew, because LAG could concievably holding a 3 in his hand since he "just cc'ed 2 bets" preflop.

2) Hands like AQ, KQ, QT are ruled out by the 3-bet on the river for reasons stated above.

3) I'm immediately putting villain on a Q with med-high kicker from the flop raise. If villain holds a Q, then it is 3 times more likely for hero to be holding 77 than QQ.
i.e. When villain holding a Q, there are C(2,2)=1 combination of QQ left, whereas there are still C(3,2)=3 combinations of 77 left.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

Fun. Let's see how badly I do here.

1. AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AK, JJ, and MAYBE AQs and TT.

2. I think you continuation bet your entire pre-flop
range. To 3-bet though, oh that's question 4.

3. His range now is, AQ, KQ, QJ, QTs, TT, 99, 88.

4. To 3-bet, I think your range is, AA, KK, QQ, JJ, AK, AQ, KQ, QJ, TT, and 77.

5. You can now rule out AQ.

6. Either QT or TT.

7. I don't know. More often, I'd say he has QT than TT, obviously, and knowing that, it opens up your range a lot more. I'd be afraid of TT, if we didn't have it, but I'd still 3-bet, AA, KK, QQ, 77, and TT.

Good idea.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Why didn't you C/R the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

given my reads, this is arguably the correct play. at game speed it didn't occur to me. this is something I need to work on.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Whats your resulsts with A2-A6s and QJ-Q10 and J10 from utg in a five handed game? I am currently raising A7s,KJ,J10s but not QJo or J10o from that position. I am also raising 66 and possibly 55.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not recommending my pf standards to others. they are based on my own comfort levels (ex. I hate 55 and 66) and are likely not optimal. as for results, I don't have anything documented because the only tracking software I'm aware of that is available for macs slows down my computer way too much.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
hero's 3-bet says he can beat trips at the very least. Anything else is a spew, because LAG could concievably holding a 3 in his hand since he "just cc'ed 2 bets" preflop

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not worried about trip 3s here at all. a non-tricky LAG is popping me on the turn every time here with a 3.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

[ QUOTE ]
3. His range now is, AQ, KQ, QJ, QTs, TT, 99, 88.

[/ QUOTE ]
too narrow. villain is cc'ing 50% of the time here! any Qx is a possibility.

[ QUOTE ]
5. You can now rule out AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]
not what I was thinking. I agree that AQ is now less likely, but I don't agree that villain is never just calling with it, so we can't rule it out.

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

he has QT

you have AA-QQ

Re: hand reading exercise #3 (5max)
 

1) Probably TT+, AQ+
2) You bet with any hand that you raise with preflop.
3) He has a Q and probably a decent side card like 9-K, or a set or 2 pair.
4) 3-bet with QQ/77/AA/KK/AQ/KQ
5) Set and 2 pair (that is Q7 and Q3, he still technically holds 2 pair with any Q).
6) QT
7) 77/QQ-AA

Good post.